Peat Monsters: Right of passage?

Wait a second, in my opinion it's the other way around. Like many other beginners, I was flabbergasted by peaty whiskies like Lagavulin 16 or Ardbeg 10, simply because they were unlike any whisky or any other drink I knew, so I bought and thorougly appreciated peated whisky for a couple of years. Although I still appreciate peaty whisky, I slowly developed a taste for the more subtle drams and now I love old Speysiders more than anything produced on Islay. I still like peated whisky, but the gentle ones (1970's Ardbeg or Brora).

It's a change from heavy, bold flavours (peat but also heavy sherry for instance) towards gentle but more complex compositions. I've seen similar progressions with other people, actually most of the true Connoisseurs I know love Speyside / Highlands / Lowlands whisky above anything else. So whenever I hear someone rave about Ardbeg 10 or Lagavulin 16, I now wink and think "they'll learn" and "they'rll see in time"!

@WhiskyNotes Thanks for a very interesting point. You have obviously been at this game for longer than I, it's just that my initial feelings were that the harsher tastes of the peated whiskies which I find so un-appealing are considered in some way to be something you acquire with time and with palate development. As I from the very beginning prefer greatly the Speyside and Highland style of whisky I must be more sophisicated than I thought!.............Maybe not. Thanks for your reply.

Because Whisky (no e) is a MAN'S DRINK and Whiskey (e) is for GIRLS.

@scribe Not sure what you mean. Whisky is from Scotland and generally Whiskey is from elsewhere. What's your point? Sorry if I'm mis-understanding you.

No, not really. Just kidding. But it's a good question, with tricky answers. I've half thought through some of the before, so the below is only some random thoughts.

FWIW, I'm not picky. I probably used to be, when I got into it all, but I've "mellowed" so I'll happily drink anything if it's interesting. I know people that are really into peats. I know people that hate them. I know people that like some and not others. But I know where you're coming from.

IMHO, there's always that "spirits culture" that spills over from British bars and clubs into the whisky world a bit. Throwing a vodka in your eye or setting fire to your gin, etc - there's that (rather pitiful) masochistic, self-proving idea that alcohol - and shorts, in particular, as a heavily-concentrated burst of booze - is a challenge. MAYBE this spills over for SOME people into whisky.

I don't know to what extent this is true. I'm not even sure why it's the peaty ones in particular - maybe it's actually such an unfamiliar smell that it has an intriguing, "otherness" appeal. I had no idea what peat smelt like for ages, until I got hold of some Irish stuff. Maybe the "challenge" aspect is more to do with unfamiliarity than macho-ness.

Maybe it's often just such an overpowering smell that it can mark you out as "different", or wanting to be left alone ;) Maybe it's similar to goth fashion in that sense - deliberately offensive so that people that are easily offended steer clear of you.

Anyway. I've reached the point where I feel a little sadness whenever anyone prefers a whisky just because it's more "obvious", peat included. The fun in whisky is in the layers, the subtlety alongside the easily-accessible flavours. Peat by itself is boring. Peat with cocoa, christmas pudding and butter is getting somewhere.

Like what you like, and try anything once.

@IainVH Sorry Iain, I knew someone would reply before I could get my proper response out ;)

@scribe Maybe I replied too quickly, boring day at work to blame I suppose! I think you maybe right (if I've understood you correctly) that there may be a little macho thing going on. Might be similar to those who eat the hottest curry they can regardless of the taste. (I bet that gets some response!) I may be totally wrong and time and experience may bring an enjoyment of peated whiskies, but I doubt. Its the view in some quarters that you'll never be a 'real' whisky man (or woman) until you enjoy 70cl of TCP in a green whisky bottle that annoys me somewhat. thanks for your reply. Cheers.

@IainVH Kudos to you for airing your thoughts. Isn't it "rite" of passage?

My wife and I have been hosting tastings for more than three years, and we've yet to say (and never will), "Keep trying it till you like it."

Unlike many on today's blogs we also don't believe whisky is a gentleman's drink. A good 50 percent of our tasters are ladies, and of the tasters who attend three or four of our tastings a year the lady - gentleman ratio is higher still. Now, about this peat/smoke thing...

At a tasting in 2010 there were three gals and a guy. Two sisters had never in their lives tasted single malt Scotch whisky; the other gal and the guy had been whisky drinkers for many years, and the guy never missed a chance to share his disdain of peated whisky. Ardbeg 10 was one of the night's features and the only heavily peated expression. I suggested everyone try the Ardbeg as their last of five drams. They did. That turned out being the first (and last) night where every taster agreed on the night's best dram: Ardbeg 10. No rite of passage, no peer pressure, and no eye winks.

@two-bit-cowboy Thanks for your message. Spelling was never my strong point but I think the message got across. Not sure if I'm grasping the points you're raising. The main point I wanted to raise was whether a section of the whisky community felt that you could not fully appreciate whisky without a love of heavily peated drams. Although interesting, I fail to grasp the relevance of the ratio of male to female attendees at your tasting evenings. Regarding the second part of your message, your comment that on a particular occasion Ardbeg 10 " turned out being the first (and last) night where every taster agreed on the night's best dram" From this can I assume that it was sampled on other tastings and wasn't considered so?? Further clarification would be appreciated. Thanks again for your reply. Cheers.

@two-bit-cowboy Sorry, having pressed the 'send' button I re-read your message and think I grasp your point. On only one occasion did everyone agree on the best dram of the evening. If so, good point well made. Kind regards.

I suppose I was weird. I started off preferring the intense and smoky flavours. Often I cannot pick up the delicate flavours in say a speysider. I consider that my rite of passage; to get to know ''softer'' whisky or whiskey.

@IainVH It's also worth saying, I think, that it's always really worth experimenting with a whisky to knock it into a shape that you like. If you like it neat, fine. If you like it with a little water, or a lot, then fine. If you like it with ice to tone it down a bit, fine - basically, whatever lets you explore the flavours at your leisure.

You might still not get on with a particular whisky, but it's also good to be aware of all of the 'tasting tools' at your disposal. You don't always have to drink it straight from the bottle... ;)

@IainV thanks for raising this issue. I know what you mean. I have experienced the same kind of disdain and condescention when I admitted to preferring the easier drinking drams (I guess it's no secret that I have a soft spot for Auchentoshan and Greenore). But to be honest, it was usually not from connoisseurs or whisky aficionados, but would-be connoisseurs (as I call them) who indeed are riddled with a touch of snobbism. And while I do like my peated whiskies as well, I prefer the non-peated ones. But many peatheads (I'm not throwing stones, here, folks) who (believe they) are in the 'elitist category' like to think so because peated, smoky whiskies are sometimes (most of the time) harder to appreciate than lighter, fruity malts. Thus less people like them (they think) and thus it must be for the 'knowledgable few'. Having said that, I do not thinkg writing 'beginner's dram' or 'woman's drink' is meant in a condescending way. The Auchentoshan Classic - to name just one example - belongs in that category in my opinion, because it is indeed very accessible and easy to appreciate for a novice's palate. That doesn't mean it is a 'lesser' dram. Coming from me, surely you know I mean that. Some final advice: taste as many whisky's as you like, how you like them and make up your own mind. If anyone tells you otherwise, just smirk, wink, nudge and raise your glass with a knowing twinkle in the eye. Slàinte!

Excellent topic of discussion 'IainVH'...@Donough...I'm in a very similar boat to you with my whisky preferences. I really enjoy any bottling, Islay-based or otherwise, that has a 'bolder' profile. This is not meant in a hyper-testoterone sort of way, it's just that at this point in my whisky journey I am enjoying being able to more easily identify certain tasting/aroma notes that jump out at you. I've enjoyed Black Bush, Evan Williams Single Barrel, Te Bheag, Auchentoshan 12, and others for this reason.

Much like you, I am striving/hoping to get to the point where I can pick up on more nuanced flavour profiles that others rave about. One such example for me was samples of Wiser's Legacy that I tried (at different times, and in different ways) a while back. Try as I might, I simply could not pick out the wide range of flavours/aromas that have been consistently identified by others in multiple reviews that I have read. My rite of passage would be to develop the finer points of my whisky senses.

I may be naive but, for the most part, I feel a lot (though not all) of comments about learning to appreciate peat, getting into Islay's, or other similar sentiments, are meant more in the spirit of encouragement towards the end of being able to at least sample, at some point in the journey, the full spectrum of what whisky has to offer.

I am that way with the more subtle/complex offerings. I don't know if they will necessarily become my preference at some point, but I definitely want to gain experience and develop my palate to the point where I feel like I am able to at least appreciate all that is being offered from those bottlings.

Along the lines of what 'markjedi1' stated, the 'beginner dram' comments seem to stem from the (widely held, I believe) notion that more people who are new to whisky will gravitate to sweet/fruit-based profiles, instead of the smoke/peat/medicinal profiles of Island/Islay whiskies. I don't believe there is malicious/derogatory intent. I think it boils down to the fact that people are more likely to have a 'sweet tooth', rather than a 'smoky/peat tooth', when presented with food options, and that this preference would transfer naturally to sampling whiskies for the first time.

@markjedi1 Thanks for your post. I totally agree that it may well be the people who have a certain amount of knowledge of whisky and consider themselves a level above novice who are the main culprits here, rather than the true experts out there. It's as if an appreciation of peat somehow puts people (in their own minds at least) a cut above the total beginner. However as already stated, it is I feel often an appreciation of delicate Lowland or Speyside whisky that shows true knowledge and taste. As you were the person who directed me to Auchentoshen, I very much appreciate your comments. Cheers.

@scribe Yes, I have tried the various 'tools' available to sample a variety of drams. It would however probably take so much water to appreciate a Ardbeg that it would make the whole exercise pointless! Thanks for your comment. Cheers.

@Pudge72 Thanks for your post, you raise some very good points. One of my main aims is to hopfully in time develop a palate which will be able to pick up and identify the many nuances and flavours experienced by others. I've already widened my net from supermarket Scotch, Jack Daniels and Jameson to cover whiskies from America, India, Japan, Canada and EVEN ENGLAND! I may in time go back to the peat monsters and I find myself enjoying them, but I very much doubt it to be honest. When you try a new whisky and feel like spitting rather than swallowing (pardon the smutty inuendo) it doesn't bode well for future tasting enjoyment. Cheers.

@Donough Thanks for your post. I think you are quite lucky to be able to appreciate the peat monsters and then move onto the lighter whiskies. Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to make the jump in the other direction. Cheers.

I think I am the only one who had a completely opposite experience, ie peat was easier to me than other scotch whiskies, which I used to find harsh compared to Ardbeg and Lagavulin...the reason, I think, was that the huge peat masked the taste of alcohol and made the dram more pleasant to me (but of course you have to like peat and smoke)...during my first months, for example, I found glenlivet and glenfiddich 12 more offensive to my palate than Ardbeg for that reason...now I'm learning to appreciate highlanders and speysiders, but paradoxically I still find auchentoshan a bit harsh...matters of taste!

@IainVH Good topic! I also noticed that in the whisky world real connoiseur are expected to enjoy peated malts. In my case, I started with the smooth caramel of the speyside, and I did not fully enjoyed the iode and peat of Islay. I joined a whisky club and we would taste all kinds of whikies. That made me get out of my comfort zone; I then tasted several different tastes and I appreciated most of them. I know seek for new flavors in a whisky and I like to be surprised. In order to fulfill my taste for new and unexpected whiskies I then sampled a lot of peat monsters, that I enjoyed. Mainly because of the complexity of it rather than the pure peaty taste. The first peated malt that I first truly enjoyed was the Laphroaig Quarter Cask; it is sweeter, oily, and complex (which I came to enjoyed in other un-peated malts) which smoothes the peat. After that, I came to enjoy the Laphroaig 10yo that I disliked before. So here is my suggestion to make peace with those monsters: to start with the sweeter and sherrier malts like the laphroaig QC or 18, or the Ardbeg Uigedail. But of course you don't have to, I do not think this is a rite of passage, but in my case, my palate really did developped and I now enjoy the peat! I did not wanted to sound condescendant here, hope I did not. I only wanted to share my own experienced where my taste did changed. I guess it depends of your state of mind or even your life course. I don't think our palate is fix into time! It did for me!

It was a laphroaig 10 that really opened my eyes and probably got me hooked on single malts, because of the intense and unique qualities it has. A few years and many malts later including lots of peaty ones, I now tend to steer clear of peaty whiskies and opt for big sherried drams instead. For anyone to say you have to like Islay whiskies to be a true SMW aficionado is talking out their arse, but for sure islay whiskies were the catalyst for my malt journey, but it could just as easy be a HP 12 or a Farclas 10 - each to their own.

Wow, what a momentous discussion ! This one certaintly ought to have a place in the Connosr Hall of Fame … what do you think, Jean-Luc ?

What a collection of thoughtful and insightful posts … and, the title could even have been "True Confessions of Whisky Connoisseurs" :) @lainVH, I agree with your concern that started this discussion, and BTW, I feel that much of this discussion could be applied to the "cask strength" popularity as well. It was validating to me to read about @WhiskyNote's journey through the malts, @Pudge72's full spectrum realization, @scribe's "spirits culture" and @Maude's and @markjedi1's thoughts about whisky which are similar to mine !

Much has already been said, but I wanted to add that, starting in childhood, people tend to follow the trends of their popular and outspoken peers regarding what everyone is supposed to like … you see this in music, clothing, food and drink … and advertising makes good use of this. Depending upon your degree of independence, it takes a good bit of courage and self-esteem to confidently stand up and declare to the world that "I don't like peat !" … amoung the accusations of herresy and immaturity ! But often, many others are feeling the same way, and they may come up to you later and thank you for your announcement of relief … and so @lainVH, thank you !

Gee, I wonder if this discussion will tend to lessen the demand for peated whisky … and thus lower the price ? … another good thing about this discussion ! :-)

@IainVH to borrow from Stieg Larsson you have truly kicked the hornets nest here, and good on you for it! It took me back to the night that I came home full of expectation with an Ardbeg 10 miniature, poured it out by the fireside fully expecting to be blown away, which I was- by how freaking awful it was!! That said, I recoiled in horror the first time i tried a Talisker but have actually grown to love it. Can't see it happening with the Ardbeg's of this world though, but hey, I suppose the beauty of Whisk(e)y is the breadth and variety of different "expressions" and regional nuances. It would after all be a dull world if we were all drinking and discussing the same bottle of whisky every night, all with the same opinion of it.

But I agree, conquering the Peat monsters shouldn't be seen as the holy grail of whisky tasting. If you like it you like it, if you don't you don't. Simple as. Good work my friend!

@IainVH Glad to know you got my intent on the second reading. Sorry I wasn't more clear so it would have made sense in one run through.

Regarding my women - men ratio example: Like your resistance to the pressure to learn to love peat, the "whisky is a man's drink" theory is another in a long list of stodgy old conventions that I'm happy to see turning around.

Great discussion. I've enjoyed reading everyone's comments. Here's to drinking what you like!

@ Pudge

Had a chance to taste Wiser Legacy and had perhaps exactly the same experience. What I have found is that going to a good whiskey tasting club has helped in picking up flavours but I think I will always be a peat monster. Now to rob some of my housemates Connemara Turf Mor!

Here's a more specific response to this discussion. I have always enjoyed experimenting with, comparing, and trying different items, especially regarding food and drink. It was only a couple of years ago that I discovered, as @Pudge72 mentions the "wide spectrum", that there was such an enormous variety of malts and spirits available for every mood, every situation, every budget, every nose, every palate, and for every day of the week ! :) I really appreciate having a wide selection available to me at any time … well, except that doesn't happen when travelling :(

I have also recently gleaned, that in order to take advantage of this marvelous assortment of whisky choices, you need to approach your tasting properly, and be aware of your mood and be aware of what you have eaten. Though this topic can and has easily overflowed other discussions, some of my major insights that I personally have gleaned, which lend to the best whisky experience and appreciation are:

1. You have to take very small sips, then hold and savor for quite some time, and then gently and slowly swallow. Add water only if it improves your enjoyment of the dram at hand. At one tasting festival, some distributers will almost pour you a full ounce (30ml) … well, this would keep me happy for quite some time, but regrettably I needed to move on and had to take a couple sips and dump the rest into the bucket :(

2. Unless you are really trying to compliment your meal, whisky is best tasted alone. Food can ruin a whisky or at least mask its flavors. But then too, sometimes I find that any whisky tastes better and more palatable after a beer; and then there are days when no whisky tastes any good at all. Also, for me it often takes months to achieve an overall feeling for a particular whisky … one day I like it, then the next day I don't …

Finally, for me, whisky tends to get better, the more of them that I taste in a session. The first few tastes usually are not that great, but these tend to anethesize and condition the palate. I usually get about 12 sips (tastes) to an ounce (30ml) (use a straw or a teaspoon), and it is fun to switch between many bottles in a session. During this routine I am often surprised that I like certain drams, and I often find additional characteristics in drams I'm already fond of. A glaring example for me is that I recently discovered something to finally like in malts that I had previously written off, such as Glenkinchie 12, Tobermory 10 and Auchentoshan Classic … and even Four Roses bourbon.

As you might suspect, my reason for including this post (and others might disagree to some points), is to eliminate any fundamental (and fixable) reasons as to why you may not like some whiskies … such as perhaps the Islay experssions. Then if you still don't like them, your conclusion is more genuine and reliable … and that's that !

BTW, peated/smoky whiskies do have a place in my whisky life … maybe 15% of the time. And again, they are ALL quite different, and Ardbeg is quite uniquely and engagingly different from all of them !

@IainVH, I am glad that you brought this topic up for discussion. Tolerance of the different tastes of others is essential to a polite society, whether face to face or online. Personally I most like to see the encouragement of all of our members to enjoy total freedom to enjoy the wide world of whiskies as they see fit, and to hold whatever opinions of them and taste in them as they see fit.

As to my own taste, I like all types of whisky in different ways and at different times when in different moods: sometimes I want subtle and delicate, sometimes powerful and bold, sometimes grain flavours, sometimes peated and/or medicinal and/or briney flavours, sometimes wine and fruity flavours, sometimes strong wood flavours...sweet, sour, bitter, salty, umame...they all have their place for me. I like the variety.

Wow! I only expected one or two responses! It seems to be turning into a bit of a (peat) monster! Sorry, pardon the rubbish joke. As the discussion appears to be taking on a life of it's own I'll struggle to reply to the posts individually, so I'll just say thanks for your responses and I hope people will continue to chip in with their opinions. At the risk of repeating myself, I fully respect anyone you loves the heavily peated whiskies and who knows I may come to like them myself in time. I just wish I'd spelt the word RITE correctly in the title! Cheers and happy tippling. Iain.

I've never really worried about the concept myself IainVH. I started off drinking the run of the mill Black Label 10, Chivas Regal 12 and the moved to Ireland for a while and for several years drank nothing but Irish whiskey so I said farewell to the concept of any peat for a very long time (still haven't tried Connemara). Nowadays I'll drink almost any whisky (I'm still trying to find a bourbon I enjoy) but the Irish and less peaty whiskeys are still among my favourites, especially that bottle of Middleton Rare which gets opened once or twice a year. Japanese whiskys are fast becoming a favourite with me as well. Highland Park also wows me. Their 18 year old is to die for.

I still consider Lagavulin 16 Year Old to be distilled Iodine but I do enjoy Talisker 10 and Ardbeg 10. I'm never worried when I people criticise Irish whiskey or say 'that's not real whiskey, only scotch whisky is real whisky). If they want to cut off their noses to spite their face fine by me. It's all about the taste in my opinion. And everyone's taste differs. If you like smoke fine, if you don't no worries.

Does anyone else have the problem of needing to visit their whisky cabinet for a dram after visiting this site?

As a relative whiskey novice myself and as primarily a Bourbon drinker, I have noticed much the same thing. Not just peated to non-peated snobbery, but also a Scotch to all other types of whiskey snobbery. I'm slowly coming around on Scotch, thanks to this site and a few others that have pointed me in the right direction on new things to try, but I am a Bourbon drinker. Bourbon is what got me into whiskey and even now when I want a drink to savor I reach for a Bourbon most of the time. Also since I live in the US, Bourbon has the added advantage of being significantly less expensive.

There is this idea that other whiskeys don't have the same complexity and subtleties of Scotch which I do not find to be the case. I think this comes from the fact many peoples first experience with whiskey is usually Jim Beam or Jack Daniels most likely as a shot or in a whiskey and coke. My own personal first experience was in the horrific shot called The Three Wise Men (equal parts Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, and Jose Cuervo). It took me a long time to give whiskey, or tequila for that matter, a second thought for anything other than a way to get drunk fast. Nobody makes these kinds of nasty drinks with Scotch because it is so expensive so the negative imprint never gets made.

In my opinion the Four Roses line, Van Winkle line, and the Buffalo Trace Antique collection expressions stand up to the best that Scotland puts out. It is not necessarily "better" or "worse" but it holds its own and should be considered in the same class.