Bravo Ralfy!

@Nozinan, we are in complete agreement regarding the Monarchy brother! ; )

Scotland receives more from Westminster than any other part of the UK, including England. They have the equivalent of a Provincial or State government, aka the Scottish Parliament, they receive more for healthcare, welfare and education including free university education, they have all the jobs related to North Sea oil, all the economic spinoffs from the oil, and by staying in the UK they are about to get more. Scotch ain't that big a deal. Far more people drink vodka, rum, gin, wine and beer than Scotch. Canvas any random group of 20 people and see how many are Scotch drinkers. I was born in Scotland and have lived in Canada for many years. None of my relatives in Scotland thought independence was a good idea, far too much to lose. As for 16 year olds, when did they suddenly get political? That's just another social media circle jerk. 18-24 year olds here can't spare the time away from their Facebook and Twitter accounts to give a shit about voting.

So, @CanadianNinja, why do you think Alberta doesn't get out from under the control of the thugs in Ottawa? They have all the oil. I live in BC, I hate Harper and his little pigs in Ottawa, but there's no way we are going it alone with Christy Clark's bunch. Quebec has more power in the federal government and the senior civil service than any of the rest us (check the names). We pump tons of money into Quebec to stop them from whining about how hard done by they are. Why wouldn't they want to stick with us. Scotland got it right Ralfy knows whisky, but his arguments for Scottish independence were simplistic and naïve.

@Victor's got it right too, as usual.

Sorry about the long rant. Just sayin'.

@BlueNote I think you've hit the nail on the head, that's why so many voted no apart from teenagers. The Scottish people don't do too bad.

Just one more thing: Anyone who thinks the alternative media isn't full of bias, misinformation and outright lies is fooling themselves. If you are getting your news and world view on an iPhone you are getting, for the most part, crap You might as well read the National Enquirer while waiting at the supermarket checkout.. At least there is a variety of opinions and biases in the mainstream media. The Daily Mirror and the Telegraph see things quite differently. CNN and Fox News don't exactly agree on "the truth." At least I can get a variety of viewpoints from mainstream media and form my own opinions. Social media just makes things up that 16 year olds gobble up as truth.

Oh, just one more. Here in Canada we would call 55% to 45% a landslide. Quebec stayed with Canada by just 1% total difference (50.5% to 49.5%), nowhere near the Scottish 10% total difference. I very much doubt there was any hanky panky with the Scottish vote count.

@BlueNote

It's interesting to note that the number of spoiled ballots in the 1995 Quebec referendum was greater than the difference between no and yes. A humbling thought. I've had a lot of time to think as I put my Whisky drinking on hold because of a nasty cold.

@BlueNote The fact that you defend the mainsteam media goes far to explain your staunch endorsement of the "no" vote. The corporate media is designed to program people, not to inform them.

Do you really think that Fox and Murdoch are in business to inform people? His empire provides controlled opposition to the other side of government, so "conservatives" (who vote for tax and spend wars abroad like lemmings, not very conservative to me) can feel as though they have representation in the media.

ALL of the Mainstream Media, including Huff Post, Democracy Now, NPR, BBC, Daily Mirror, Telegraph, Times, New York Times, etc. etc. are controlled by the world's richest families.

If you think that billionaires and trillionaires have the same vested interests as people who earn under 10 million per year, then you are simply deluding yourself. The Daily Mirror is owned by Trinity Mirror plc. Do you really think true ownership of that company can be traced? No. Not by you and not by me, at least. We would hit a roadblock because the REAL owners (not the names on Wiki) have several hundred years' experience in hiding their assets and where their marionette strings are attached in business, government, the media, illegal drug trade, pharmaceuticals, etc. etc.

The vote for Scottish independence, if indeed it was "no" (which I'm not convinced it actually was) is an example of just how powerful the media and scare tactics can be.

Poor Scottish people (especially those on welfare) were frightened of losing their handouts (which are largely taken from the middle classes in the form of taxation, as it is in the rest of the UK). The majority of middle class people most likely voted "yes." Rich people voted "no" because they are comfortable with their lives the way they are and upsetting the applecart might mean altering the course of their wealth, especially insofar as their rich children's futures are concerned. For instance, the haven that is UK for inheritance and the passing on of wealth to future generations Scot Free (without the logical amount of taxation) might have been threatened, not to mention a whole slew of other threats to the steaming flesh pots (money moolah assets).

Question: So who lost the most in the "no" vote.

Answer: The middle classes.

This is not surprising, since the UK is fast moving towards a rich/poor neofeudalist state. It's exactly how the rich want it, and how the poor are trained to crave it (like the drug that it is, literally and figuratively). Yes, they are literally being drugged by free antidepressants, as well as bribed with welfare taken from the middle classes (largely).

I'm a middle class guy, but I also have the bizarre ability to think and reason autonomously from the hive mind of programmed humanity. I'm really not sure why. I don't watch television and I don't believe what the media tells me. Any time I open a newspaper or surf a news website, I assume that-- when it comes to the really big topics like the economy, wars, politics, Big Pharma, immigration, "security" at home--the truth is being bent, distorted, and subverted. This is not always the case, but it's a fair way to play the game.

Would you assume that your opponent in a game of chess wants you to win? The same goes for the vested interests that control the media. Their interests are different from my interests and the middle class's interests. So reading their propaganda, entertainment, and, yes, a smattering of really honest to goodness news, is like playing a game of chess.

The same can be said for reading news coverage of the vote for independence in Scotland.

Ironically enough, at least in my home city, the rich don't buy good scotch (if one was to draw up demographics) and neither do the poor. It is the middle and upper middle classes that are interested in good scotch. The poor cannot afford it and the rich are surprisingly boring when it comes to fine things oftentimes. I had a girlfriend in college that was the daughter in an old money multi multi billionaire family. I was shocked to find out how boring she and her family were when it came to really enjoying life. Their meals were cooked at home by chefs and served by servants but the food was bland, just the way they liked it. As for their taste in hard liquor and wine, they didn't pay much attention to what was in their glasses, and when they did, it was pretty much what other people thought was the good stuff (usually their home staff that were in turn instructed by employees at the wine shops).

Yes, it's true, my ultra-rich girlfriend's family didn't deign to trust their own judgment as to what even tasted good to them. They drank what was supposed to be good when they cared (less than half of the time) and what was available (had been purchased by their staff on routine shopping trips into town) the rest of the time.

I'm sure there are exceptions but I would be willing to bet quite a lot of money that the same logic holds true for this website in terms of who is participating on it. Do you think the rich (billionaires and higher) would "waste their time?" Hardly. But they would certainly hire others to build, maintain and keep the website going, especially if they had vested financial interests in the whisky and whiskey industries.

Those are the kinds of people who wanted a "no" vote in Scotland for obvious reasons. In light of their vested interests, a "no" vote was imperative. The ultra-rich are very good at getting their way. Winning is in their blood, so to speak., even when this means screwing over the vast majority of humanity. And if you think this sort of viewpoint is communistic, guess again. Communism also served the ultra rich and continues to serve them as controlled opposition to capitalism, which most certainly serves their vested interests. In reality, there is no such thing as free markets and no such thing as a true collective with the best interests of the majority of the population in mind. There is only one flavor with many different colors: it's called rule by a tiny minority of the world's richest people in such a way as to fool the rest of us into playing along.

This "only game in town" will become even easier as the world's populations are genetically homogenized, psychologically dumbed down, and physically poisoned with all sorts of eugenically enhanced goodies like "fluoridated" water (water laced with the waste products of fertilizer manufacturing), GMO's, tainted vaccinations, toxic pesticides, nuclear radiation and/or other toxic pollutants in most sea foods, steroids in most meat cheese and milk, antibiotics in most meat cheese and milk, excessive sugars in practically all foods in the price range of the poor, excessively processed corn shite in practically all foods available to the poor, asspoortame, aerially sprayed nano-particles of aluminum, controlled weather (especially earthquakes), controlled pandemics, controlled terror, controlled wars, controlled food additives, and so on, and so forth.

@Nozinan. Good point re: the spoiled ballots. I hadn't thought of that.

@rigmarole. Not sure where to begin to respond to that one; so I think I won't. I do sense a wee touch of paranoia and conspiracy angst in your words, feelings I think many of us, to some extent, have in common with you. I agree with your take on the conventional media, my point was that social media and the internet, as unbiased sources of information, are not very useful alternatives. Who are currently the richest people on the planet? Think Facebook, Google, Twitter etc.

I really don't think this is an appropriate forum to debate things political and philosophical. It's about whisky. On that note I will end my involvement in this thread.

I am now going to drink a large dram of Ardbeg Uigeadail and wish you all good health.

Slainte!

I really enjoy sipping fine whisky and surfing in the evening. To me, it's more fun than sitting like a couch potato and passively absorbing television programming.

Tonight, I've had a generous pour of Ardbeg Supernova, another of 2012 Lagavulin Distiller's Edition, and a third of Highland Park Loki. I treasure them all and could not rank one over the rest. They are all stellar whiskies and just cotton-pickin' delicious. I count myself fortunate to have the bottles at arm's reach.

So . . . here is what I've come up with so far this evening on the issue that is near and dear to my heart these days:

NEARLY 100,000 SCOTTISH DEMAND A RECOUNT OF INDEPENDENCE VOTE

This article in The Guardian uses the typical "conspiracy theory" label and other mind games to brainwash folks who quite naturally have begun to question the logistics and efficacy of the referendum vote: theguardian.com/politics/2014/…

Vote tampering caught on film? www.youtube.com/watch

Grass roots reportage that isn't owned/controlled by billionaire interests: 21stcenturywire.com/2014/09/…

The usual "indie" provocateur camp from USA (which is likely funded by trillionaires in secret as controlled opposition and as a way to leak really good facts and some very revealing and important data and information in a way that discredits said intel, aka "Alex Jones Style," i.e. insane rolling of the eyes, ham fisted rants, loud boisterous yelling, and other distractions that discredit some incredibly revealing connections, hard indisputably accurate fact checking, etc. etc, by association, along with heavy dollops of sensationalistic yellow journalism, along with a peppering of complete rubbish thrown in to also discredit the hard facts and, at times, very insightful commentary): infowars.com/over-150000-demand-recount-aft…

Notice the pro-common wealth propaganda embedded in Huff Post's reportage: huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/…

Drink up, lads and ladies! There's nothing like a glass of good scotch to help relax after a hard day's work. This said, I might just switch to a local Oregon gem (Big Bottom Bourbon) for my last swig of the evening.

Happy drinking, and happy surfing! 'Tis better to be proactive by using your critical thinking faculties rather than passively and post-hypnotically drinking in the verdicts of reportage from billionaire and trillionaire "news" sources, which, insofar as the big issues are concerned, always attempt to program your outlook, ethical perspective, and self image. Scottish Independence was a VERY big issue because it also affected the future of Northern Ireland, in addition to the rigged game that is known as common wealth rule.

Here is one last legendary Youtube clip that speaks volumes: www.youtube.com/watch All of the better, longer clips of this very candid testimony in the HOL have quietly been removed from Youtube leaving only this short sound bite, along with the typical provocateuristic window dressing.

Slainte! I'm raising my glass right now as a toast to the voice of reason, to the general principles of goodness, to fairness, and to my love of humanity, as well as our shared planet and its interdependent cultures, ecosystems, and spiritual well-being.

Bravo Ralfy! You deserve a toast as well for your forthright bravery and willingness to state your opinion on the all important vote for independence. Cheers to Ralfy!!! This is my last post on the issue. I shall keep quiet from now on, and get back to the all-important subjects of whisky and whiskey. . . .

@rigmorole I will say the vote tampering leaves me scratching my head.

I'm not one in favor of a re-count - however if there's evidence that does show the potential of fraud - then by all means have a re-count since it's only fair.

I'm proud to announce no hangover in the slightest from four healthy glasses of scotch last night. Gotta love it. The better the scotch, the more merciful the hangover (or lack thereof). Or perhaps that just the placebo/good scotch effect keeping me feeling chipper in the morning.

At any rate, since the subject was broached, I thought I would ferret out just a wee bit more evidence of possible foul play in the vote count:

This guy (in link below) seems obsessed with the fact that he predicted the outcome. I predicted the same outcome (close numbers, swinging to "no"). Big deal, right. Well, he did raise the interesting fact that the difference in the vote was fewer in number than the amount of mail in ballots issued. I didn't know that. This guy seems obsessed with MI5.

Anyone that mentions MI5 as much as he does, especially on Youtube, stands a very good chance of covertly working for MI5, at lest on a freelance basis (as a paid provocateur). That doesn't mean his data is skewed. It just means that his way of presenting the data (if indeed it sways fence sitters to reject the data as sensationalistic) could be planned by some powerful folks who want the "no" vote to stick. www.youtube.com/watch

This mellow fellow weighs in with some good points: www.youtube.com/watch

Russia is crying foul, which is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black, especially when one considers the huge impact that English money bags secretly have on Russia's government. But the evidence under examination is worth considering: www.youtube.com/watch

If I were Scottish, I would have observed my local vote counting station with video camera in hand. But that's just me. Such private citizen monitoring is not illegal in the USA. Of course, in the UK, the amount of government and private video surveillance by companies and corporations is staggering. I wouldn't be surprised if the government has passed laws against private citizens surveilling government facilities. I really have no idea about the legality of such things.

The amount of footage coming out of Scotland that indicates foul play is not overwhelming; however, the number of Scottish that want a recount is significant. Depending upon the news source, it's between 90-110 THOUSAND Scots at present. That's a statistic worth paying attention to, especially considering the population of Scotland is 5.3 million (by 2013 estimates). 100,000 out of 5.3 million, especially as signatures in so little time, is certainly a palpable figure, especially when one considers that most of the signatures most likely came from one or two cities since the rural areas would be very hard to reach in so little time.

lol - looks as though we have a 'phantom' amongst us - handing out a plethora of thumbs down.

Wow! I've been crazy busy with work for the past few days and it seems I've come back to quite a discussion...

@FMichael, I just went through and 'thumbed up' all those thumb downs! ; )

Anyway, as always I love the fact that here on Connosr there is never an absence of interesting conversation. There has been quite a lot posted that I would like to respond to, but it's probably best left alone at this point. Thanks to everyone who chimed in, it was indeed educational in many different ways! Cheers boys!

Interesting to note that this conversation regarding Scottish independance has been dominated by Canadians and Americans. Only one Scotsman chimed in as well as some sparse European input. All very animated and interesting. Even with the results in, there's still controversy, disagreements, and hyperbole surrounding the issue. Leave it to @CanadianNinja, our resident diplomat, to calm things down.

As much as Connosr is and should be focused on whisky, it's nice to get a sense of all the characters and opinions that converge on this site. Personally speaking, I've enjoyed reading this thread more than most, and I don't mind a bit of lively debate here on Connosr so long as we keep things civilized.