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Justification Needed

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@PMessinger
PMessinger started a discussion

My local whisky shop has a bottle of 30yr old Balvenie which I'm considering purchasing. However this is not a small priced whisky. Naturally this is a decision that must be considered carefully due to the large price tag. Is it worth owning a high priced whisky like this as an investment?. This is a decision that feedback would really be appreciated, I'm in very uncharted waters here. Thanks to all my Whisky Connosr family for input and sharing your thoughts. :)

10 years ago

20 replies

@CanadianNinja

@PMessinger, if you have the money, and if you want the whisky... go for it. Little justification is needed in my opinion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with spending more than a few bucks on a bottle, as long as you have it to spend.

You know, I think it's kind if funny, I often read comments regarding 'whisky snobs' and the fact that little money is needed to buy a great whisky. This is certainly true. However on the opposite side of that, I often find many people think there is something wrong with purchasing expensive bottles. Like somehow doing so requires a special reason or means that you are in some way not a true 'connoisseur'. This is nonsense. There is nothing wrong with picking up a bottle for $15 or $300. Again, as long as the money is there and it's something you want, I say buy it! To drink or as an investment, it's up to you!

Cheers ; )

10 years ago 1Who liked this?

@Maltmark
Maltmark replied

@PMessinger. Tell you one thing... It's my top dram to date.

10 years ago 1Who liked this?

@Maltmark
Maltmark replied

But, I wouldn't advise to buy as an investment. Just share with your closest friends. And decanter some of it right off the bat so that 2 years pass, and you have 100ml of it just as you opened it.

10 years ago 1Who liked this?

@PMessinger
PMessinger replied

@CanadianNinja Awesome wisdom however I felt I should make a point about the price to give you the basis for my discussion thread the local shop has this priced at $824 and change. Wow that is a heavy price tag, that said I really appreciate your words of wisdom. Thanks you and @Maltmark have given me lots to think on. :)

10 years ago 0

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@PMessinger

At that price, from what I've read, you may have a long wait until it becomes a good investment. The ones that seem to go up fast are the ones that are no longer available and were "reasonably" priced when released. For instance, Black Bowmore was sold in around 1995 for 100 dollars at the LCBO and can now fetch up to seven thousand. But I've followed it's price for the last 2-3 years and it's plateaued.

On the other had, Balvenie 15 year old single cask (has it been discontinued in favour if the 12?) increased by about $30 in Ontario before no longer being available. That's a good 25 % in 2 years or so.

So what I've heard as sound investing advice is:

  1. Only buy what you would drink if it didn't appreciate (or if the price went down).

  2. Buy quality high end expressions that will not be available in the same form in 5-10 years.

  3. $75-150 is probably a sweet spot. You can buy multiple bottles to maximize return. For instance if a 500 dollar bottle is sold for 550 you make 50. If 5 bottles bought at 75 go for a hundred, you make 125. Less output, more income.

  4. always be wary of investing advice you receive from people with an online handle named after a antipsychotic drug.

10 years ago 1Who liked this?

@PeterG7
PeterG7 replied

@Pmessinger I too am a balvenie fan so I can understand you interest in purchasing the 30 year old. To be honest I think 824 seems a bit high. The same 30 year old is 680 in Florida.

10 years ago 1Who liked this?

@PMessinger
PMessinger replied

@Nozinan Thanks for the input this is a pretty steep price for a one off, and I mostly buy to fill my cabinet with brands that 1. I really like and want to have on hand 2. Brands that I have trouble getting in my state so I have to get multiples to hold me over. That said I just can not thank you guys and gals enough for all the good advice. @PeterG7 I'm in Michigan and I suspect the price will vary from state to state and taxes will differ as well. :)

10 years ago 0

@Onibubba
Onibubba replied

Ouch. $800+ is quite steep. That is more than twice my new ceiling. But I do often find myself in your place, needing some kind of justification / re-enforcement, that the money I am parting with will be well spent. @CanadianNinja makes an excellent point - IF you have the money to spend, and this bottle is calling you, get it. I do not regret any of my more expensive purchases, especially the ones that I have not yet consumed and know I will never be able to get again. It is extremely gratifying to me to know that I have certain whiskies. When I drink them or what I do with them is my business.

I do not know much about buying whisky as an investment. I do know that, barring a closeout/sale price somewhere, the whisky you are eyeing today will not be any cheaper a year from now.

If possible, seek out a taste at a well stocked whisky bar. I lucked into the Balvenie 30 at a bar in TN. It was a 50.00 pour, but it was as close as I was willing to get to an 800.00 bottle. I discovered that tastewise, I prefer the Tun series from Balvenie. Arguablly, just as collectible at a third of the price. The 12th bottling of that one, the fourth released in the US, will start hitting shelves in the fall. Just something else to consider :)

10 years ago 2Who liked this?

@PMessinger
PMessinger replied

@Onibubba Thanks for your viewpoint I read your review of the Balvenie 30yr old before I posted this discussion thread. It was awesome a lot of good info there that review was the spark the conversation between myself and my admiral / wife which gave birth to this post. I was really hoping to hear from you and @Maltmark due to your experience with this expression. I'm torn by the fact that I'm a whisky enthusiast and not a collector but this brand is well past my celling as well. My admiral reminded me that several bottles of our favorite Octomore ( which is hard to get) can also be purchased for that same price. Thanks again for your feedback. :)

10 years ago 0

@Ol_Jas
Ol_Jas replied

The decision comes down to a straightforward fraction: The number of hours you must work to pocket $X dollars / number of drams you possess.

How much work must you do to earn $824? Would you do that work to drink ~30 glasses of this whisky?

For me, I've yet to find a whisky that's worth more than $80/bottle using such a calculation.

10 years ago 0

@PeterG7
PeterG7 replied

@PMessinger You remind me of me four years ago. I had my eye on a very rare and very expensive malt. I made frequent visits to the LCBO and spent most of my time staring at this bottle. Bottom line I was torn about the purchase (it was 4 figures). I wanted it and I kept talking myself out of it. On one of my visits, my wife was with me and made the decision for me. She walked over to the one of the staff and said "please open the case we want to purchase a bottle of XXX" Yes, it was expensive; but. you know what "no regrets". So, unless it is going to cause you financial hardship I say go for it. What the heck, we go around once in life. You want it, buy it.

10 years ago 1Who liked this?

@sengjc
sengjc replied

I am believer that liquid assets (wine, spirits, etc) should foremost be for enjoyment and if it appreciates in value then it is a bonus or it just makes the enjoyment of it all the more sweeter.

10 years ago 0

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@PeterG7

I think my wife must be related to yours. I sometimes feel guilty about spending money on whisky, even though I've never bought anything worth (at the time) over $150. But my wife's attitude is "go ahead if you want it." When I saw the ticket prices for Spirit of Toronto (plus the extra price for an early masterclass) I was about to abort, but she insisted that I go. It's her gift for my birthday. What annoys her is the growing collection that I'm NOT drinking. SO it's not the money, it's the space.

@sengjc

Absolutely. Everything I buy, I buy with the intention of drinking. If I never get around to it, it will be because I always had something I wanted to drink more. If I die before I drink the best bottles, I hope that they will go to people who will open and enjoy them.

But, as you suggest, it's nice to see the same bottle in your cabinet worth more than you paid for it. It proves you were right when you stocked up.

I haven't been doing this long enough, but I suspect that in 10 years, I'll have bottles on my "to open" shelf that are no longer for sale. Then it will be great fun to have people over and bring out those bottles and share them.

10 years ago 2Who liked this?

@PeatyZealot
PeatyZealot replied

Drink half, sell the rest as samples ;)

10 years ago 1Who liked this?

@PMessinger
PMessinger replied

@PeterG7 Thanks for your input, my admiral/wife did the same thing last year when she bought the Shackleton Whiskey that one was up around the $200.00 range. She isn't likely to be as supportive on this one. @PeatyZealot your idea has some merit but my concern is wouldn't that make me a bootlegger. lol Thanks again. :)

10 years ago 0

@PeterG7
PeterG7 replied

@Nozinan: My wife also doesn't understand why so many of my bottles aren't open.

10 years ago 1Who liked this?

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@PeterG7

Almost as if she wants me to drink MORE....

10 years ago 0

@BlueNote
BlueNote replied

Yikes, I just read on another thread that you could buy 10 bottles of Talisker 18 for the price of that 30 year old Balvenie. The Balvenie is probably a great dram, but in my experience with Highland Park, the 30 year old is not 8 or 10 times better than the 18. Unless you are absolutely dripping with cash I'd be thinking very hard about relative value here. I think that the Tal 18 and the HP 18 are about as good as it gets for quality,value and bang for the buck. and although I have yet to try it, it sounds like the Balvenie Tun releases are excellent at about one fifth of the price of the 30. Cheers.

10 years ago 1Who liked this?

@PMessinger
PMessinger replied

@BlueNote Thanks for helping me with this discussion thread, you have and excellent math solution to the 30yr old Balvenie. As a fan of the Tun 1401 and many others of their product range I can see the value of multiple bottles of other brands for the price of this expression. That does have to factor in when thinking of this one, and no like many others I'm far from dripping with cash. :)

10 years ago 0