Restaurant Whisky Menu

Hi @dbk ... wow, another challenging discussion :) Short Response: Given your stated goals, and picking up on the word "diverse", I would say that you are missing a light, un-peated Speyside-type. I would propose one of the more elegant expressions of something like Glenmorangie (yes perhaps the Nectar), Balvenie, Glenrothes, and numerous others. Also a higher-end, lower ABV, un-peated sherry-type could occupy a slot. Finally, I am sure a good number of fine-diners are brandy drinkers, and a fine Asbach Uralt or Germain-Robbin would be a mover .... not to even mention cognac. Alas, it is really difficult to choose ONLY 7 bottles !

Longer Response: When I am in a pub or reviewing a menu, I often look to see what whiskys are offered ... and usually the list is quite pitiful. Your goal and list is positively refreshing, exciting and experimental. I myself would be delighted to choose a dram from your offerings at that restaurant. But I am thinking that, even among fine-diners, few of them are likely tol be whisky connoisseurs. Instead, much like most folks, they will look for their established favorites ... and we all know what those are. And the restaurant probably has at least a little interest in what sells :)

I would very much like to know what is finally decided, and in some time, how it is going ! I have to say that it is a bit surprising to me, that given this is a fine-dining restaurant, they are not including many more whiskys; or am I missing something ... maybe they are asking you to merely augment their existing proposed common list, with 7 exotic choices ... especially if you, yourself dine there often :) I'm sure you will have fun with this !

What a fun task... I'll give this some thought :)

Wow getting a menu pared down to 7 whiskies is a tough task.. all the more so since you are trying to hit all the different types.. I think I could do 7 single malts but even then I would be in trouble on a couple. Two comments though .. First: Both the Aberlour and the Port Charlotte are bottled at cask strength and I don't know how accessible that is, I know many single malt drinkers who are not cask strength fans. Additionally you would run the risk of having your clients numbing their taste buds if not burning them out before they got around to eating. I am a cask strength fan and i would avoid them if I was about to have a fine meal (especcially if I was paying for it) Second: the Port Charlotte is a limited edition, there is no telling how long it will be available (it doesn't even make it to the LCBO's web site), personally I wouldn't want to stock something that could not be permanent when the list is necesarily so short..

All that is to say I might Sub out the PC for something like the Glenfarclas 21 or the Glen Roths..

Going for 7 less known whiskies is a nice idea from an amateur perspective, but it might not be the perfect idea for upping the restaurant's whisky turnover. People may just want their Lagavulin 16 because they love it. Also, by presenting so many uncommon suggestions, you will need a trained staff that can explain the background, the regions, the differences... otherwise it leads to ridiculous situations.

I'd go for 4 well-known expressions and 3 innovative choices!

@AboutChoice, you make an excellent point about drafting a menu of whiskies that "sell." However, the owners don't own that kind of a place—they want a whisky menu that is in the same spirit as their food menu: classy, adventurous, and unique. This is why I'm so excited by the project.

The choice of a Speyside—a sherried one at that—was the Aberlour A'bunadh, but as @AboutChoice and @Andrew both suggest, a lower ABV bottling might go over better in some circles. The A'bunadh was a favourite among the owners/managers of the restaurant, but the Glenfarclas 21 year-old might do as well. I'll give this one a think.

As for cask strength, tastebud-burning whiskies, I'd hazard a guess that most clients will take their bold whiskies after their meal, rather than before, but you make a great point @Andrew. I plan on providing tasting notes, but perhaps I'll add in the suggestion that those two are best saved for the end of the meal.

Great suggestions, folks. Keep 'em coming!

Only seven ??!! Nooooo !!...... (J/K) I like your choices dbk, and the responses have been really good. I also agree with About Choice about having an unpeated whiskey , and in that vein I would suggest Scapa 16 year. Good luck on your quest !

I'm glad to see the Forty Creek Confederation Oak Reserve made the list as the local Canadian entry! I would agree that it should edge out the Double Barrel reserve for this list. Other Forty Creek possibilities could be the original Small Batch Reserve (released 2007) or the Port Wood Reserve (released 2009), but these two expressions are not available at the LCBO. You might still be able to get the Port Wood at the Kitling Ridge distillery, but Small Batch is no longer available.

I might replace the Jameson 18YO with the Redbreast 12YO pot distilled Irish whiskey. I have not tasted the Jameson 18YO, but I believe the Redbreast would compare favourably as the Irish item on your list.

I agree with having the Aberlour A'bunadh on the list - this is one of my favourite whiskies, and seems to be available regularly at the better stocked LCBO outlets.

I had difficulty finding the Port Charlotte PC8 Ar Dùthcas on the LCBO product list. As Andrew noted, is a second cask strength entry on the list. I would recommend replacing with the Highland Park 18YO.

Sláinte!

@dbk, from another viewpoint: ( 1 single malt, 1 cask strength single malt, 1 bourbon, 1 Canadian, 1 Irish, 1 brandy/cognac, 1 rum ) = 7 bottles. I wonder why "7" is such a magical number ? :)

This scrolled off too fast ... was hoping to see what others would have to say ...

Hi gang,

This has been very helpful! I'll make a couple of quick responses, and let you know how things have turned out (so far).

@WhiskyNotes I think you and I had been writing our comments around the same time, so I failed to respond to your helpful thoughts. The owners are insistent that they want a "unique" whisky menu; rapid turnover is not important to them. However, we plan to hold several tastings to highlight the options. This will hopefully increase interest and alleviate concerns among the clientele about unfamiliar brands. As for the staff, there will be tasting notes on hand, and I will train them personally some evening soon.

@AboutChoice, @Andrew, and @tfahey1298, I took your advice and removed the Port Charlotte. However, it is in fact available through the LCBO, though it's hard to tell: www.vintages.com/vmail/bruichladdich.shtml

@tfahey1298, I am a big fan of Forty Creek—you can see my reviews here on Connosr as proof. I found it tough to choose between the Double Barrel Reserve and the Confederation Oak Reserve, but in the end, I just felt the Confederation Oak was a touch better. As for the Small Batch and Port Wood releases, sadly, they left this Earth some time ago; the LCBO has none, and the distillery has none. Believe me, I tried. Finally, while I think the Redbreast 12 is excellent, I urge you to try the Jameson 18. I think you'll be suitably impressed. We may also make the Irish selection Green Spot (see my review of this gem here: connosr.com/reviews/mitchell-and-son/…) when the LCBO is restocked.

@AboutChoice, I don't want you to worry about non-whisky spirits: there will be two more pages of other spirits, too!

So, if I dropped the PC8, what took its place? I chose the Ardbeg 10 for now (yes, I know, alongside the Springbank 10, that makes two peated Scotch whiskies), but we will be able to rotate the whiskies as soon as they have been drunk.

In the meantime, I have another (related) mission. We're looking for one "ultra-premium" whisky (again from the LCBO), in the price range of about $150-$250. The LCBO's selection is not great in this category either, but here's what I've got so far: The Balvenie 21 year-old PortWood, Bruichladdich 21 year-old Sherry Cask, Glen Keith 1973 vintage (Douglas Laing; I know absolutely nothing about this bottle), Glengoyne 21 year-old Sherry Cask, The Glenlivet 21 year-old "Archive", and Midleton Very Rare (Irish whiskey). Any thoughts?

Very interesting discussion @dbk!! How did the 2nd mission go?

@dbk Glengoyne 21 is an ace in my opinion, I have heard good things, (if my memory serves me) in a certain magazine, (not certain if I am allowed to throw around names) about the Glenlivet 21 Archive. I am a fan of some Glen Keith expressions, but maybe I should do a little digging before I go right ahead and say jump on it. If the Bruichladdich is in any way reminiscient of the later legacy releases, I would ditch it, but once again I think looking into it first might be a good idea. Side note on the Glengoyne, premium highlander for a price unmatched by almost all 21 year olds (I am not positive what the cost is out there, but if it is around 100 dollars, I would go for it) definitely will make a killing on the shelf. I personally think it is neglected and needs to show it's colours.

Have you considered throwing a Japanese whisky into the mix? Personaly I am pretty fond of the Yamazaki 10 y.o. Very pleasant, very drinkable, with a lot of nice sherry in it. By the same token, I havent tried any of them, so I can't recomend a particular expression, but how about trying to fit one of the Amrut products onto the list?

Hi folks,

Nice to see this thread revitalized! We recently had a tasting at the restaurant, which went very well, so the menu had to be finalized well before then. The LCBO (see my first post) rotates stock often, so we had to make a few new adjustments, several of which made me quite happy. In the end, we wound up with Buffalo Trace instead of Eagle Rare for bourbon (ER is a more aged, single barrel selection of BT, but BT is very, very good stuff) and Compass Box The Spice Tree as an additional Scotch.

@Peatpete, good suggestions with the Yamazaki and the Amrut range. Unfortunately, we didn't go with these this time around, but I would consider them in future rotations (I have both, and enjoy them). As for the "ultra-premium" option, we went with the Balvenie PortWood, though I think any of the ones discussed here would have been a good choice.

If anyone's interested in the contents of our past tasting dinner, check out the menu here (Instead of Springbank 10, we tasted Compass Box The Spice Tree): quatrefoilrestaurant.com/WhiskeyTastingDinn…

@dbk -- ah, the challenge of it. Wonderful

I play at these sorts of things as well, but I only consider single malt Scotch. I don't know what the LCBO has available, but seems to me the Springbank 10, a'bunadh, and Ardbeg 10 don't meet the "unique" criteria. Rather "in vogue," maybe, but I truly appreciate their pairings and when, during the meal, they were offered.

Do you have access to the annual Ballenchin releases (46%)? How about BenRiach limited releases (cask strength)? Glenmorangie Astar (cask strength)? Bruichladdich Octomore 02.1 (62.5%)?

What size pours did the guests get? That could have much to do with using cask strength whiskies.

I really like the rotation idea. Folks (customers) who go for these types of dinners will appreciate that too. Something new and different each time out -- keeps them coming back.

@two-bit-cowboy, you are certainly an expert in this sort of enterprise, so I appreciate you weighing in here. To be clear, "unique" is something of a relative term: it should be "unique" for a restaurant (rather than bar) setting with a small range of whiskies (? 10), and it should be "unique" relative to what's available elsewhere in town. In my first post, I mentioned that the menu was intended to be "different from the regular fare available in most restaurants and bars around here, like the Lagavulin 16, Glenmorangie Nectar d'Or, Talisker 10". Really, nearly every restaurant and bar in the city—with only a handful of exceptions, all of them bars—has nothing more diverse than the standard range of Diageo "Classic Malts" and a few others in the same "popularity" league (Glenmorangie Original or Nectar d'Or, Highland Park 12).

The LCBO has an acceptable range of whiskies, but it really isn't great. The pricing scheme can vary from "reasonable" (e.g., $55 for Highland Park 12) to "outrageous" (e.g., $165 for the Ardbeg Uigeadail, $180 for Laphroaig 18), the latter pricing being more common. So we unfortunately have to weigh costs more heavily than in other markets. And as for cask strength whiskies, I have tried to keep only a few on hand, as most restaurant customers don't enjoy drinking at cask strength as much as we would.

The whiskies available at Quatrefoil are generally outside the scope of any restaurant or bar in the city. I have yet to see a bottle of Springbank 10, Aberlour A'bunadh, Compass Box The Spice Tree, Forty Creek Confederation Oak Reserve, or Sazerac Rye at any bar or restaurant in the city, and have seen bottles of Buffalo Trace and Ardbeg 10 at only one bar in town (my favourite bar, at that). Although it might not seem like much of an adventure to many in this town, I promise that the restaurant's whisky menu goes far beyond what's generally available elsewhere. If it earns a reputation for quality and variety in whisky as it has for its food, then I will be more than happy to push for ever more "exotic" choices, including independent bottlings and whiskies produced by lesser-known distilleries.

@dbk

You are kind, but I'm not an expert by anyone's definition. The exploration is wonderful, and I am having fun.

Your pricing explanation is something I truly "get." I skip offerings where my cost would be as much as (or more than) a large US shop would charge its customers. I'm not trying to compete with those shops; it's a matter of being fair to our customers. Using our standard mark-up, I can't justify a $150 price for a whisky that can be had for $100 in Chicago or LA. The bad news is that this type price disparity exists not just on the "exotics" but on many of the big-company, entry-level expressions. Sad.

Our state liquor division is similar to your LCBO. Retailers must buy from the state. The state's list of single malt Scotch currently includes 24 malts. They are relatively "available" throughout the state. We offer only about half of them, and a few of us in the state order other whiskies through the state's special order list, which can include any whisky an importer will "allocate" to the state. I've grown to despise the words: "No allocation."

What you're doing for Quatfefoil is wonderful. I'd love to take it in sometime.

May I ask, Where in Ontario is this restaurant? Great Thread by the way, lots of wonderful whiskies mentioned...

Glad you're enjoying the thread, @seanelliott! I've found it helpful, too.

Quatrefoil is located in picturesque Dundas, Ontario, on the western outskirts of Hamilton. Here's the website: quatrefoilrestaurant.com

@dbk Great! I'm in London, but I will wander over that way sometime this summer for sure...I can lure my wife with that great wine selection...