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@Nozinan
Nozinan started a discussion

I just noticed a few bottles I have are going for astronomical prices on the secondary market.

For instance, I bought Springbank 12 YO Claret wood for under $100 in 2013 December. Recent auction prices have it going for almost $250. Does that mean the half bottle I have left is worth more than the whole bottle I bought?

I've also seen a few other bottles skyrocketing, but don't necessarily own them.

Has anyone else followed the secondary market (our of interest or investment)?

8 years ago

14 replies

@Victor
Victor replied

@Nozinan, the secondary market (auctions, wine-searcher.com, etc.) lets you know what you'd have to pay for a rare bottle if you really wanted one. It also allows you to re-appraise the value of your own scarce bottles, at least in the minds of those who don't already own them. I keep track of some of the secondary market prices for two reasons: 1) to consider whether I have any chance of getting one or two of the rare bottles which got away from me originally, and, 2) to periodically reappraise the true barter value of my existing stock in case I get the opportunity to swap for something I want but don't have.

Any bottle with a following starts to really ratchet up in price on the secondary market once it is mostly out of circulation. Even something like Balvenie 10 Founders Reserve, which sold for around $ 40 six years ago fetches 4 and 5 times that price now.

For me there are not a lot of "ones that got away", but there are several of them. I'd be very happy to trade a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle 15, for example, for a bottle of Octomore Orpheus 2.2. And there was a bottle of 23 Year Old Willett Family Estate Rye, named "The Iron Fist" that would easily be worth a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle 20 year old to me. And 1967 40 yo Duncan Taylor Springbank? That one might be worth the $ 2,100 it cost 7 years ago. With whiskies like these nowadays, if you really want them, you either pay the big bucks, or trade the big bucks.

8 years ago 1Who liked this?

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@Victor what I found interesting was the extent to which "ordinary" bottlings have gone up. I bought stuff because I like it, not to sell, but these ordinary bottles seem to be collectibles now.

Sprinkbank Rundlets and Kilderkins - $400! The claret wood, $250.

BTAC seems to be another. At LCBO they are all an "expensive" $130 - but I've been told that as soon as you get them they are worth 2-3 times that!

Of course, opening my Handy Rye last year with some Connosrs was worth more than selling it...

8 years ago 0

@Alexsweden
Alexsweden replied

A good point @Nozinan, there is something very rewarding in sharing a truly special bottle with friends and family.

8 years ago 0

broadwayblue replied

It is crazy how the prices have shot up. Not only is each bottle becoming a worse value proposition, it makes every blind buy that much more of a risk. To me when I see a $50 bottle shoot to $100 it doesn't necessarily make it more valuable, it just makes it less likely I'll be buying it. I have a number of bottles I bought at $50 that I'm not in love with and probably wouldn't be in a hurry to purchase again...now that they are going for twice what I paid there is virtually no chance I'll be a repeat customer.

8 years ago 0

@BlueNote
BlueNote replied

Good point @broadwayblue. If you didn't like it much at $50 you're really gonna hate it at $100. I've got quite a few that fall into that category. The tried and true ones that I really like, I load up on when I see a good opportunity at the right price.

8 years ago 0

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@BlueNote

Good strategy. my problem is that I go thorough stuff so slowly I can't buy a bottle, open it in real time and buy more if I like it. Unless I already know it's good (like the Amrut Single casks I had tasted at master class then saw they were $50 off so I loaded up) I will buy a bottle but it may be years before I get to it.

it's to bad you can't sell an open bottle that has gone up in price for the price you paid for it.. Once the seal is gone it's worth 0.

8 years ago 0

@Bourbondork
Bourbondork replied

@Nozinan Victors and others have hit the general reason for the price increases. Across the board from consumer to producer, demand is way up and it's not going to change any time soon. Just recently MGP/LDI announced they are adding more storage, ramping up production and will for the first time, begin selling under their own label (historically they have simply been a contract distiller). George T. Stagg for 2015 retailed around $80-$100 is many markets. As soon as it hit the secondary market, it shot up to $500. There are those that chase these bottles, pay those prices and most likely do so for various reasons; one to flip yet again in a couple of years for more.

8 years ago 0

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@Bourbondork

If I'm lucky enough to win the opportunity to buy a BTAC, I don't care what the secondary markup will be.... Especially if it's a Stagg.

8 years ago 0

@sengjc
sengjc replied

Age statement and vintage Japanese whiskies are crazy expensive and exceedingly rare at the moment - particularly Yamazaki, Karuizawa, Yoichi, Hibiki, Hakushu and Miyagikyo.

8 years ago 0

@Frost
Frost replied

You can't drink them from the grave and I don't buy to invest. I know some of my bottles have increased in value. I can't say I intend on selling them. I've sold things online, I can barely remember the profit from the sale and I can't account for what ever happened to the money I made from it.

However, I can recall each bottle of whisky I have opened to share with a friend. And we can still to this day discuss them. I have friends who are not whisky enthusiasts, or prefer other whisk(e)y types (ie Irish). They now know what an Octomore is or a wine finished whisky is.That's valuable to me.

8 years ago 3Who liked this?

@BlueNote
BlueNote replied

@Frost. Well said. Cheers

8 years ago 1Who liked this?

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

@BlueNote, @Frost, Agreed! If ever you find your way to my neighbourhood, rest assured, we'll have a go at many of the 80 open bottles on my wall, and perhaps a few of the unopened bottles too.

n.b.

Bring cab fare and a cricket helmet.

8 years ago 0

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@paddockjudge only 80 bottles?

Seems as though a visit to your neck of the woods might be in order.... though not sure what that has to do with the secondary market.

Unless the unopened bottles you are referring to are Mac CS that you managed to get for a song a few years ago and are now worth a "little more"?

8 years ago 0

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

@Nozinan, my 80+ open bottles support @Frost's claim, "You can't drink them from the grave and I don't buy to invest."

I believe a net sum of 5 Mac CS found their way to my shelf through you. Although they are worth considerably more today, on the secondary market than they were at the time of purchase, their value to me remains the same. Mac CS is my favourite single malt.

8 years ago 0

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