Whisky illuminati

If I were a billionaire I would simply buy them all, try them, and give those away which I did not like. Not being a billionaire I would want a sample before laying out that kind of money. Lacking a sample you are at the mercy of trusting the taste and judgment of others. Lacking grounds for having that trust, you remain...in a crap shoot.

@Victor I was thinking the exact same thing. At this price I always hope for a taste or a few reviews to pop up first before taking the plunge but in this instance i’m guessing they will be gone.

There are many many many many whiskies I won't buy.

These are some of them.

And somehow it feels seriously wrong when people start buying things, without knowing what they're really buying, out of fear that if they don't buy.... they may not be able to buy in the future as the item won't be available.

I.e. hysteria and fearfulness of being.... just at the point where you currently already are.

It's the dreaded "F.O.M.O." social media concept translated into the whisky world... sigh

Surely they're toying with trouble using the "Illuminati" name on their label? Who know's what will happen to all those unsuspecting buyers - maybe 2 Pac will come for them

Though I agree with you in principle. I’d have to argue that that fear of ‘missing out because the price rose’ is part of being a whisky enthusiast now. With the days of ‘everything at a realistic price’ far behind us and my personal cabinet not having the benefit of time. Unfortunately I find I do have to snap up anything I want to try before price rules it out of being an option.

So I guess the answer to my original question is - how much are you prepared to spend to find out?

Also @Hewie I hear Tupac was more of a Peppermint Schnapps kinda guy .... (always knew my Thugz mansion knowledge would come in handy one day ....)

It'll be the lizard people. They'll getcha.

i.gifer.com/T6nP.mp4

Just seems like such a stupid thing to do to release those whiskies at those prices. Fair enough if they are going to undercut distillery bottles but as they haven't why would I spend that sort of money and take a gamble on an independent bottling?

If I'm going to spend £250 on a bottle of scotch which is waaay above my budget then I'm not going to take a risk on a bottle that I have no idea of the quality.

I'll just get a bottle of Springbank 21 or Old Pulteney 25 and know that I'll be getting a very good whisky.

Surely the point of independent bottlers releasing aged whiskies is they do it a bit cheaper than the distilleries do?

It also goes to prove how full of **** the whisky industry is. On the one hand pushing NAS whiskies because 'age is just a number. It doesn't mean quality'. Then why are you lauding your 25 year olds exceptional quality and demanding a telephone number price for it, if it's age doesn't matter?

@Wierdo - having given this lots of thought recently I'm beginning to think that the boom/peak is on the way down and what we're seeing are some distilleries trying to eek out every last drop of milk from the teet.

The HPs and Macallans of the world will lose their prestige if they keep this up and word will begin to filter into the mainstream that they aren't 'what they used to be'. I suppose the real older ones will always have mega bucks appeal though .. .

@Wierdo fantastic point with the NAS.. @RianC I’m not so sure, this particular bug is very infectious... and most parts of the world are only just discovering just why the people on this site love this spirit so much. I can only see prices for anything a little special increasing as demand increases ... and I’m guessing the Macallan’s of this world agree seeing as they have pretty much all doubled their potential output over the last couple of years.

@Wierdo The less scrupulous distilleries are trying to have it both ways when it comes to NAS.

• On one hand, it’s : “This is rare 30 year old whisky! Give us eleventy billion dollars for it!”
• On the other hand, it’s: “Age doesn’t guarantee anything. This is whisky of exceptional quality. Give us eleventy billion dollars for it!”

@OdysseusUnbound Agreed. Quite the double standard alright.

Well, it depends on what you see as the standard. If the standard is just "sellers will tell us whatever they think will convince us to pay top dollar," then it's always the same standard.

@MadSingleMalt Good point.

@MadSingleMalt Maybe not so much a double standard, perhaps we should just call it what it is: intellectual dishonesty (i.e. “pay no attention to the man, or age statement, behind the curtain”), or at the very least, cognitive dissonance (i.e. “age doesn’t matter, except that it matters a lot”)

I figure they just tell us stuff, and we get to decide what we care about.

Age, cask quality, barley type, Viking allusions, the wee witchie, rugged distillery locations, terroir, limited edition—whatever.

@MadSingleMalt as long as it’s very smoooooth I’m sold.

@conorrob - Yes, probably more likely wishful thinking on my part but if a brand loses the 'enthusiasts' seal of approval I think, over time, it may well start to lose some wider appeal . . . maybe?!

@RianC just such a shame to see big popular distilleries seemingly forgetting those fans that made them popular in the first place. I’m so glad this topic has brought about so much discussion ! Thanks all !

@MadSingleMalt I think whisky consumers with our experience and knowledge can read between the lines of bullshit. The lumpen proletariat maybe not so much.

My lifelong dream of being lumped in with the non-lumpen has come true!

@RianC I think you are on to something to a degree.

I think there are several different types of people who buy Macallan.

1. The collectors. They might not even be whisky drinkers. They buy high end bottles of Macallan as an investment to flip them at a later date. They'll never open them.

2. The casual whisky drinker who recognises Macallan as a quality brand and doesn't know enough about whisky to realise it's not any more.

3. The show offs people with lots of money who drink high end bottles of Macallan to show off. They'll wear designer clothes, drive a flash car, have an expensive watch. They want to show off their wealth.

4. The whisky afficionado they know their stuff, they used to buy Macallan because of its quality. They stopped buying Macallan a few years ago now.

The trouble is that the shopping habits of 1-3 react to the habits of 4. The purpose of luxury products to a large extent is to say 'look at me' and create envy. If the basic products are very good, then there's a demand for the high end products too. So if the Macallan 10 or 12 is really good (which in the past it has been) and has a good reputation then people aspire to experiencing the high end stuff and then there is a kudos to saying 'I'm drinking Macallan 30'. If the lower end stuff is rubbish then that statement won't receive the same affirmation and instead of 'you lucky sod' they get 'you obviously have more money than sense' as a response then they're not getting the same kudos. The lower end stuff has to be decent to create a demand for the high end stuff. At the moment the high end stuff is in demand despite the lower end stuff being poor quality. But I think that is just that it takes a long time for the casual punter to catch on to what the enthusiast works out a lot sooner. They'll catch up.

The other thing is punters 1 and 3 have no real brand loyalty.

1 buys Macallan because it gives a good return on investment. As soon as some thing makes a better return they'll pour the Macallan down the sink and buy that instead.

3 buys it to show off. If the fad changes for a MORE luxury product, say Hibiki 30 year old suddenly becomes the must have high end whisky they'll stop buying Macallan.

Even 2 only has brand loyalty of a kind. They buy Macallan because they don't know any better. If enough people tell them to buy Glendronach instead then they'll buy that.

The whisky buying public may be slow to react to changes in the industry but not as slow as the industry itself is to change. A decision made by a distillery today takes 10 years to take effect and if they got it wrong another10 years to put right. If the damage being done to the Macallan reputation amongst whisky fans spreads to their high end customers it could takes years to put right. There are over 120 distilleries in Scotland alone (never mind the rest of the world). All of them would like to be able to sell their 30 year old for £5,200 a bottle like Macallan do and many of them have been putting an awful lot of effort into making sure that what they put out is of very good quality, slowly building the reputation amongst serious whisky drinkers Macallan used to have.

So yes I do think Macallans and Highland Parks bubble will burst before long if they're not careful. In the whisky world imo it is essential to make sure your core products are of goid quality if you want to maintain the reputation and price tag that goes with it.

Sorry double post

@BlueNote, I strongly agree with you about detecting the bullshit, Newspeak and Oldspeak both, depending on whether it carries an age statement or a viking helmet, especially for those of us who actually read 1984 ............before 1984.

@Wierdo, you make an excellent point about the kool-aid drinkers, always the cool kids buying the image.

I attended a charity fundraiser held at a local school a few years ago. Prior to the event, a group of parents gathered at a nearby restaurant. Over a drink, the conversation turned to whisky. The chap across from me blurted out that Macallan 18 year old was his favourite scotch.

Before entering the fund raiser, I made a quick stop at home and filled a couple of flasks. Upon arriving at the school I sought out the scotch afficianado and poured him a generous helping from my flask. After some time he asked if this was rye. I replied that it was not. He asked what it was, to which I replied, "it is your favourite scotch, Macallan 18 year old". Gotta love it when a plan comes together....I moved on to catch up with an old friend... he poured me a solid shot of Jameson's from his flask and I gave him a heartfelt "thank you"...gotta love it when a plan comes together.

@paddockjudge that story