anyone else have an issue with this image?

@cask_strength I saw your tweet to Highland Park so I'm interested to follow this

I think that drink looks amazing to be honest. However it's not in my habit to mix drinks with whisky. I enjoy the whisky more as it is.

As long as the drink tastes better than the individual components, I don't see that there should be a problem.

thanks for the replies. OK now this question. If you owned that bottle of HP, would you use it to make this drink? Or would you drink it as the master distiller intended you to drink it (neat or splash of water)?

The issue I have with the mixing trend is that the distilleries/Master Distillers are striving to create a stand-alone product for you to enjoy, as they've done for decades. YES as a consumer you are entitled to enjoy as you see fit, and as long as sales increase with this trend the distillery is OK with this (or at least won't publicly complain). But why add additional ingredients and flavors that end up MASKING the complexities of the single malt, rather than enhancing?

If owned a bottle of Dark Origins (~£65 in the UK) I probably wouldn't use it in a cocktail (my personal preference for whiskey cocktails would be Rye or Bourbon – not Scotch)

As a comparison I wouldn't have a problem with using a £65 rye in an Old Fashioned as a treat. Generally I'd save that caliber of spirit for drinking neat though.

When I was a kid, we used to take all the fireworks we could get from the dime store, fuse them all together into a big monstrosity, tape it to the top of a little firework tank, and see what happened. We didn't worry too much about whether that was what the producer of the fireworks "intended." It was just fun.

And this is just whisky. Let's not be too precious about it. Is it a waste to put high-end whisky in a cocktail? Sure, maybe it's a waste of money if something cheaper is just as good, but who cares? Bottles go a long way, and when it's empty, are you really gonna regret pour #17 having gone into an old-fashioned instead of a glencairn?

good point Ol Jas. The Distilleries promoting the mixed drinks is what's killing me, of course it's expanding the consumer base, which heightens demand for the product, which makes the scotch cost that much more. Burns me to have to share the product with the "mixers" crowd.

@cask_strength , yeah, but there's plenty to go around. They make nearly inexhaustible supplies of whisky every year. I doubt I'll go thirsty because someone else made a Rob Roy.

And let's not hold our breath waiting for the whisky industry to stop trying to sell more whisky! :)

@Ol_Jas I still think about the 8 bottles of Black Bowmore, numerous Mortlach rare casks, Macallan 25s, etc... that were owned by the fellow who spurred my interest in Scotch. When he died his sisters indicated they would divide up the collection to family members and I shudder to think that they might have been opened and mixed with coke....

If I were a prospective buyer: this image makes me think HP is not serious about Dark Origins being a quality malt, and therefore I would not buy it. They appear to be altering not only the flavor but possibly also the temperature (by the misty appearance) as done with most cocktails However, I happen to already own 2 bottles of HPDO that differ greatly in quality. I would never do this with the 1st bottle, whereas I have been brainstorming for ways to make good use of my 2nd bottle.

In what way is the "mixers" crowd a bad thing?

As for "drinking it as the master distiller intended", I've enjoyed many a mixed drink and cocktail with distillers over the years – they generally seem to be of the mind of "I've made a tasty thing, what you do with it from here is up to you".

Fair point @VanPelt! Personally I would be inclined to perceive a scotch to be of lesser quality if it was ''sold'' as a mixer. However I don't know if us snobs here are a bit biased.....

@Alexsweden I don't think "purists' make up a large part of the market, which is why manufacturers and retailers (sorry if I offend anyone currently in this thread) really don't give a fig about what we want. If they did the manufacturers would be more transparent and put out better quality stuff, and the retailers would put more pressure on the manufacturers for transparency and quality.

It's almost like not every product is aimed at us :)

@Nozinan I think your conclusions depend on which "the market"?

@cowfish - Agreed. We forget that there are a whole slew of consumers who want only 40% (or if you're lucky, 43%) of what they pour.

I think it may be useful to step back and look at the big picture. For some reason single malts are given this special standing ads more refined and special than the other whiskies. So it's somehow abhorrent to mix them with something but it's OK to do so with blends and bourbons.

Well, I would say that for the most part generalizations are not a good thing.

There are some blends that drink very nicely neat and some that can't be tolerated on their own. Similarly I would suspect glenfiddich 12 and some of the NAS crap that the retailers market to us prominently would do better having the roughness masked by mixer. Similarly it is just as sacrilegious to use George T. Stagg in a cocktail as it is Bowmore Tempest or Octomore.

But even stepping further back, with the exception of a few truly rare, irreplaceable bottles, this stuff is a renewable resource and while some prices are high, if you can afford it and you like it, you're not hurting anyone by mixing premium spirits. It's just a liquid.

Does seem a waste though.

Once you've had a Stagg Old Fashioned made well, you won't look back...

That said, the cocktail that I saw Simply Whisky make a few years back with Mortlach 70yo, Talisker 57 North and a stack of other ingredients was definitely a waste of the Mortlach. You could still taste the Talisker, and it was a very tasty drink, just maybe not the best showcase for the impressive but fairly delicate Mortlach :)

@cowfish, give @Nozinan five or six bottles of George T. Stagg and he might be willing to agree wtih you. The degree to which you have access to a given spirit has a lot to do with how you choose to use it.

@victor Kina Lillet is almost impossible to find and if I ever do, I'll be sticking it in a Vesper – everything's an ingredient.

I've not had a chance to try Stagg in a couple of years. The Old Fashioned I had last time was outstanding.

@cowfish, oh I accept that you are a cocktail guy, and I understand that perspective. My two main drinking buddies are both very partial to cocktails. I don't think the same could be said for @Nozinan, though.

@cowfish I likes old fashioned, but I tend to mix only whiskies that are either unbalanced or cheap. As I like to mix whiskies, I will mix whiskies that have big qualities but lacking some to be sippers in an attend to get all the flavors I like afterwich I will add some ice tea or something else to round the edges. When it come to G. T. Stagg, I want to taste every parts of it and don't want any to be masked. I have a question for you: which one as the biggest quality leap between the Stagg compare to a regular bourbon and the Old Fashioned made with Stagg compare to an Old F. made with the same regular bourbon?

@vanPelt I have the same experience as you with Dark Origins. Two bottles, two differents quality. This was a bad surprise to me from Highland Park...

@Robert99 The Old Fashioned made with the cheaper bourbon is a bigger jump, but the Old Fashioned made with Stagg was a much better drink.

I'm not saying you have to mix everything, but the 'you can't mix that!!!!' attitude is one that annoys me. As long as you make something that tastes better (to you) than the base ingredients, I don't see it as a waste. I don't generally mix most whiskies, as I don't think they do make a better drink, but when someone I trust (which is occasionally myself) can make them better, I'd be an idiot not to try.

Sazerac Rye Manhattan with Cocchi Vermouth di Torino and 2 types of bitters (Seville orange & Cocoa).

Happy Friday everyone

Agreed @cowfish. Anyone who spends $50, $70, $100 for a bottle of whisky can do whatever the hell they want with it. Clean the toilet with it if you like, mix it with pink lemonade.I don't think that should offend the whisky cognoscenti who enjoy the same freedom.

I think @Nozinan's point is that the distillers are taking aim at a less sophisticated, younger and trendier consumer in an attempt to sell more expensive product to a wider demographic. And it's a bit galling to imagine what they will do with it. It's the Beckham factor. The hipsters and clubbers lap that shit up. Or maybe it's just the vodka-ization of whisky.

as cowfish mentioned above about being annoyed, I'm annoyed with single malt distillers going away from tradition to become trendy. Consumers can do whatever they want with what they purchase, but what pisses me off is a distiller like Highland Park eschewing decades upon decades of tradition just for the almighty buck. #respectingthecraft

There are a lot of distillers and scotches out there, a lot of options, so from this point on I will only purchase my whisky from a distiller that does NOT promote over ice, nor mixed with Coke zero. I'm done with it.

and Jeanluc's drink looks Marvelous.

@cask_strength that hashtag seems to bring up mostly pizza tweets.

I agree we should support craft distillers who lead with the intrinsic quality of the product. But what about Diageo? Sure, they push their blended crap (JW red for instance) and market with lots of hype, but then they release a Caol Ila 17 CS ("unpeated") - aside from the cost and my ability to afford it only on a trade in, would you have me ignore that?

I completely agree with @cowfish that a cocktail should taste better than the sum of its parts. Otherwise you are just masking alcohol with sweet and/or sour. When I make cocktails for friends I always like to pour small tastes of each ingredient into small shot glasses (not full mind you, but enough for a taste). That way they can see how the cocktail elevates the individual components.

I would have no problem mixing Highland Park Dark Origin. It is rough around the edges and I could understand if someone wanted to round it off a bit. I would be less inclined to mix Highland Park 18yo. It is round enough (I wish it came at Cask Strength!)

My favorite cocktail to demonstrate this elevation of ingredients is

the Vieux Carre

1/2 ounce rye whiskey

1/2 ounce brandy

1/2 ounce sweet vermouth

1/2 teaspoon Benedictine

1 dashes Peychaud’s Bitters

1 dashes Angostura Bitters

I typically use Bulleit rye and what ever Armagnac I have on hand. However, on one occasion I made a special version with Sazerac 18yo, Bas Armagnac Delord 25yo, and Antica Formula sweet vermouth. That was easily the best Vieux Carre I have made to date. But, I would be hard pressed to say that the Sazerac 18yo was elevated. Rather, it helped elevate the other components. It was fun to try once, but I have never done it again. The Sazerac 18yo is so hard to acquire.

However, over the past few years I find fewer and fewer cocktails actually elevate quality ingredients. I have never had a Scotch based cocktail that elevated a quality single malt. Yes, I have used Laphroaig and Ardbeg to enhance other cocktails . . . but again, they seem to do the pulling up. Typically, I would rather just drink the Ardbeg or Laphraoig. Making the cocktail should be diluting the ABV and usually sweetens the experience – neither of which I need in my smoky scotch. Also, I don’t typically want to sweeten a quality bourbon in an Old Fashioned, Mint Julip, or Whiskey Sour. However, I certainly have been known to convert lesser bourbons into cocktails. But, I doubt I could bring myself to use George T. Stagg in an Old Fashioned . . . maybe a Stagg Jr.

But if you want a great Martini try:

The Smoky

2 1/2 ounces Plymouth Gin

1/2 ounce Lagavulin 16yo

with a blue cheese stuffed olive

It is one of my wife’s favorites.

Personally I find the price on this bottle of Highland Park Dark Origin offensive. Simply ridiculous. And no, it was not a mistake by the shop owner!!

@cowfish I totaly agree if it taste better, you should do it. When the other ingredients are as good as the whisky, it is probably worth it. I have to admit Jean-Luc and Nock have me salivating. It's just that When I am thinking about mix, I too often have in mind a mix with orange and pinneaple juices where you taste only the juices. When you mix liquors, I think more of it as acreative blending or a composition. So maybe it is the word that I don't like.