Beware the hipsters are coming!

@Nozinan I agree. Lagavulin 12 and DE were exceptions for me. Whenever anyone asked me which was the best scotch I’d ever tasted, I unequivocally replied “Lagavulin 12” (I haven’t tasted as widely as some others here). So that’s how I rationalized my unusually expensive purchase.

@OdysseusUnbound and now that you've tasted the 12, and CS Caol Ila?

@Wierdo, and...a reminder that the Macallan 12 Sherry Oak that we in North America are recommending, at under $ 70, is the 43% ABV version. I would never recommend the 40% ABV releases without trying them first, and I would not be optimistic that the 40% ABV releases would come close to equaling the 43% ABV ones.

@OdysseusUnbound, your Lagavulin 12 was my Ardbeg Supernova. Some bottles are worth paying more for. Today you may have a $ 200 CAN upper limit on your purchases of "the best". Tomorrow that limit may be $ 300. The day after tomorrow, who knows what the limit will be. By then you will have convinced your wife that delicious whisky is worth far more than the mere $ 300 that you are willing to pay for it. :-)

When I one day run out of Lagavulin 12 myself, I expect that I will be willing to pay the hefty sum to buy some more of that one too.

@Victor I think Macallan is essentially made for the international market and is one of those rare Scottish malts that is better value for money outside the UK than it is within the UK.

Also Macallan has an image within the UK similar to that of Johnnie Walker Blue Label. A status whisky 'look at me I've made it I'm drinking Macallan'. So a premium price just feeds into that to some extent and Edrington clearly think they can get away with it.

@Victor My wife actually surprised me by “authorizing” me to buy a Talisker 25 at $400 CAD. She laughed that by doing so, I was giving up my right to protest about the cost of various home renovation projects she has planned. I declined. Not because I wouldn’t love a Talisker 25, but because I can’t justify that price tag for any whisky. As @Nozinan said, there are so many wonderful whiskies at $100 or less, I have a hard time believing Talisker 25 would be 4 times better. I know that’s not how it works, but it’s my reasoning.

@Nozinan The CS Caol Ila is great stuff; both the 10 Year G&M version and the 17 Year Unpeated version. I’m not sure I’d pay $170 or more for either though. But who knows? Maybe I would (will?).

@Wierdo, I think that you are right about Macallan being aimed at a global audience. Which may also be why you in the UK never even saw that fabulous Macallan Cask Strength sold in the US and Canada 7 years ago at a total price of $ 65 (in my market). Where I live, in the Maryland suburbs of Washington, D.C., I see a lot of evidence that quite a few Scottish (though not all) producers have a long-term global market strategy of prioritizing developing increasing global market share through offering us more competitive prices than are available in the UK. I have no doubts though, that that strategy also plans to jack up those prices once reputation and market share are eventually obtained here. Will they succeed in those plans? Frankly I doubt it. Why? Because their products, even at internationally relatively competitive prices remain at a severe cost disadvantage compared to domestic US whiskey, and also compared to Canadian imported whisky. On the other hand, the US market does afford them the opportunity to sell large volumes of their products at good profit margin as it is, and that fuels their confidence to continue to increase production capacity with the expectation that they will be able to continue selling increasing volumes of product.

@Wierdo, you described how you think the "core range > high-end bottles" arrangement should work. And while many distilleries go that route, I think it'd be fair to say that Macallan are instead following a halo effect strategy where they focus very much on the prestige & desirability of their high-end stuff with the goal (or a goal) or "lifting" the reputation of their standard line and thereby being able to sell the mediocre stuff at a premium.

Folks can't afford the high-end stuff, but still want a Macallan, dammit.

@MadSingleMalt Doesn’t Mercedes-Benz do the same thing? I’ve seen what look like Chevettes driving around, but they’re Benzes, dammit!

The entirety of my Macallan experience consists of the following:

•At my very first whisky tasting, they had Macallan Cask Strength NAS, and it blew me away—mostly, I think, due to its sheer CS power which I hadn't experienced before. However, I balked at the $60 price tag which was nigh on thrice what I was just getting used to paying for the likes of Tomatin 12. So I never bought it and never had it again. Given the apathy I've developed for CS sherry bombs since then, I don't think I'm missing anything.

•The dinky little bar by my old house used to stock Macallan 12 as pretty much the only decent single malt, so I'd order it once in a while. And it was my annual birthday shot for like 6 years running.

That's it. And if I never have another Macallan, I won't care. It's a total "meh" for me.

@MadSingleMalt i think you are probably about right there.

People want a bottle of whisky from the distillery that produced the most expensive whisky ever sold.

It's really quite fascinating to watch the different strategies that different outfits pursue to earn their business. Springbank v. Macallan, for example, couldn't offer more contrasting examples, and both seem to be doing pretty well.

@MadSingleMalt it's the difference between a family owned company like Springbank and one owned by a team of investors like Macallan.

I imagine it's a massive hassle to seriously push your product internationally. All the schmoozing you'd have to do with retailers to get them to stock your product. Getting to know all the different laws in each country and state so you don't fall foul of them. Easy enough if you're a PLC with marketing teams and teams 9f international lawyers. But if you're a family owned company like Mitchell's who own Springbank and all your staff are from the local area it would be a pain in the arse. And how much money do you need? They own Springbank, GlenGyle and Cadenheads. I'm sure they make more money than they can spend. I think Springbank are happy to concentrate on the domestic market and let their reputation push their product overseas.

I have a theory they may have brought GlenGyle distillery so that if an investment company comes in with a too good to turn down offer for Springbank they'll switch all their attention to producing Kilkerran.

@Wierdo, I hate your theory. :)

@Wierdo, @MadSingleMalt, Haters Gonna Hate.

This OP makes little sense for me. The Asian market has changed the overall prices for whisky. Thanks to "whisky hipsters," there would be no trend toward higher ABV, lack of artificial coloring (150e) and large-scale willingness to taste whisky from grains other than barley.

@Jonathan I'm not sure that's true. There are plenty of commentators and campainers on the whisky industry who are definitely not hipsters who have been pushing for higher abv and NCF for some time. I think whisky hipsters have definitely helped with this push. But they're not entirely responsible by any stretch.

Hipsters like to think they have solely brought about trends towards more natural beers. But i know this isn't true. One of my mates dad's is high up in an organisation in the UK called CAMRA who have beem campaigning for more real ales in pubs years before hipster was even a word. They're not entirely happy with the explosion of IPAs and other 'authentic' beers brought about by hipsters. Yes they're happy that there are for more non-lager beers available than ever before, but they're not happy at the trend towards charging £6 for a 330ml can.

And that's the danger with the hipster movement they want everything authentic, except the price. They want natural ingredients, traditional methods, full flavours which is all great but from what I can tell there's no real push for value for money. Manufacturers have cottened onto this and have realised you can charge £15 for a tiny bottle of beard oil as long as you make sure the packaging looks Victorian.

Whenever I'm talking to people who don't know whisky I always describe Ardbeg as being the Brewdog of whisky. Massive manufacturer, that produces a huge amount of product, ships everywhere around the world. But uses viral marketing and silly names to pretend it's a quirky outsider. The point I'm making with that comment I guess , is the illusion of authenticity is more important than actual authenticity.

I fully expect the emergence of whisky hipsters to lead to distilleries pushing the selling of whisky in smaller bottles like they have with beers. Obviously, with crucially the price not being downsized in correlation to the bottle.

So, it's a double edged sword for me. I welcome the added push towards better quality whisky hipsters bring to the industry but I don't welcome the significant increase in costs.

That 2 1/2 year old made by that London distillery might be wonderful. But it could also taste like cold tea for all I'll ever know as at £200 a bottle I'll never drink it. And if it leads to other distilleries increasing their prices then it actually damages my experience.

@Wierdo - ' . . . you can charge £15 for a tiny bottle of beard oil as long as you make sure the packaging looks Victorian.'

lol a line that perfectly encapsulates the hipster movement.

@Jonathan - I think you have a point about the Asian market but I think @Wierdo's point re. the hipsters affecting UK prices and presentation is also spot on.

A good e.g. would be 'That Boutiquey Whisky Co.' I've tried a couple of their bottlings and they were excellent to be fair (as were the gins I've got for my better half). But 500ml bottles and jumped up prices mean I'm questioning their intentions, shall we say?

I guess it's a combination of the two?

@RianC So if I am a traditionalist with my shaving and employ the ol' silver badger brush, creme and knife - am I at least a little bit hipster? :) (cause my cream etiquette looks rather vintage)

@RikS I think I'm a little bit hipster too. I tend to vary my facial hair between stubble and a beard and yes my beard has a fair bit of grey in it now!

I also own a flat cap!

@Wierdo I don't own a cap, so you're a bit hippsterer than I... but I'd definitely still hang with you!

@RikS @Wierdo - Well, I play golf in a flat cap (in the winter) and let my beard grow just till it itches before shaving so I'm really not sure

@RianC 1. I'm a serious northerner so "golf during winter" would be impossible. 2. the trick is to leave it another week - it'll stop itching!

Ardbeg's a massive manufacturer?

@MadSingleMalt just like Brewdog they're certainly not the plucky outsider going it alone against the big boys they like to imply they are.

heraldscotland.com/business_hq/…

@RikS - I keep getting told all northerners are miserable sods so one may as well ham it up Is that what you mean by serious? 'cos no golf during the winter is a serious thing indeed . . . how else could I excuse drinking whisky at 08.30 on a Sunday morning?!

I actually just got some hair clippers so will be able to keep my beard to a stubble level that is both aesthetically pleasing and unable to foster any unwarranted prickles and tickles.

@RianC not miserable, always happy bunny. I was more refering to the incompatibility of white golf balls and 1.5m of snow

@RikS - Ach, you just use a bright orange ball . . . be reet