The Best Independent Bottler?

I have had too many indie bottle before but the best I have tried have been Signatory. Hopefully some more experienced guys can chime in here.

Adelphi, by far...

I like AD Rattary. Have only had a few, but all were good. One nice thing that they do is half bottles. I wish this practice was more common place.

@OJC Great discussion I've have had real good luck with IB Ian Macleod and their Isle of Skye 8yr and 12yr old expressions. In my humble non expert opinion these are consistently good and are at a price that makes them great value. Hope this was helpful. :)

Here's another view of the topic. It's expanded to consider more than IBs, but some comments relate to IBs specifically.

whiskyadvocateblog.com/2013/07/…

@two-bit-cowboy, that's a great comment trail to that discussion page, with your comment being the most interesting of all.

Thanks everybody - what a nice introduction to Connosr. Interesting thread too on Whisky Advocate, although I'm not sure I agree with John Hansell having always been a 'variety is the spice of life' kind of person and not all OB's I've had have been massively well balanced.

I would have to say I'm with Appadurai and Timothy_James as I have yet to have a bad bottle from with Signatory or Adelphi but I'm eager to find some new stuff to try. Had a Laphroaig from The Whisky Agency which was stunning and very on song for the distillery style - Has anyone tried any others from TWA?

We have had a couple of sensational Whiskies from Douglas Laing in the Old and Rare Series - Unfortunately, the budget wont stand such a hammering these days but we did see the best of the Port Ellen's; the Classic Malts Selection have some brilliant Whiskies at reasonable prices.

Good Luck!

@Victor You're too kind. I too would love to know the answer to the formula you posed.

One not mentioned so far is the Scotch Malt Whisky Society. In my opinion, they are the best that I have tried. Granted, I've had more society bottles than any other independent bottler by far, so it's not really a fair comparison. Of the numerous bottles that I have purchased from the Society, there is only one that I wish I wouldn't have purchased. That doesn't mean that every bottle is rated as a "High" in my personal Low, Medium, High scale, but more than half have been highs and with the exception of the one bottle, they were all quality whisky. Other independent bottlers that I have had good luck with are Signatory (my second favorite after the society), Gordon MacPhail, Douglas Laing, Murray McDavid and Scott's Selection. I have not had as good of luck with A.D. Rattray.

AD Rattray so far No chill filtration, no E150, good 1st fill casks and cask strength as standard:) And most of the times the price is at least fair. FE: Bowmore 21 from the distillery is more expensive than the 21yo Bowmore from Rattray

@bwmccoy Great point I have only had a few sample bottles from SMWS but I think they would qualify as an independent Bottler. From the view point of an non expert whisky enthusiast. :)

Got to put a plug in for Compass Box. They bottle some great blends and "vatted" malts.

@Nozinan - I second Nozinan's plug for Compass Box.

@bwmccoy SMWS wouldn't really qualify as an independent bottler anymore, would it? Unless you consider Moët Hennesy Louis Vuitton (LVMH) an "independent"...

Bladnoch is an independently owned distillery. The Bladnoch Forum bottlings might qualify as independent. I've heard they are high quality, but have not tasted them myself. Their own official bottlings are nothing short of great.

Does anyone know how much and where I could sell a bottle of 1966 World Cup (40 years old) Tullibardine whisky?

Scottish Whisky Auctions hold online auctions every month, should be a good place to sell it.You have to pay a registration fee of a couple of pounds then just provide a picture and the bottle details and let the bidders battle it out. Good luck@Clare

@Nozinan - I wasn't thinking independent in the corporate aspect. In that case, you are absolutely correct. (The Society is owned by Glenmorangie PLC who in turn is owned by LVMH.) I was thinking independent as anyone who buys casks from multiple sources (distilleries) and bottles those casks.

@bwmccoy precisely. Mr. Armstrong (aka: Bladnoch) only bottles his Bladnoch whisky. He's not an independent bottler. He's the owner of a small, privately owned distillery.

Andrew Symington, owner of Edradour and Signatory, plays two roles. He bottles his privately owned Edradour whisky, and he bottles whiskies from other Scottish distilleries under his Independent Bottler name Signatory.

I have recently had a Scotch Liqueur from Gordon & MacPhail i.e Atoll Brose . Anyone know anything more from this Distill? MacPhail from what I understand makes a "Select Scotch" that has been ranked very well. Unfortunately you cannot get this scotch in the States.

I find it ironic that using wood staves merits a scotch not being called a scotch, whereas dumping fake coloring into scotch or mixing all sorts of scotches together, from the same distillery, is supposed to be authentic "single malt" scotch. Most independent bottlers eschew the coloring, and they actually are often bottling true "single malt" scotch.

Mixing a bunch of different casks together can indeed produce a superior scotch (in a given batch), but I ask "Is a scotch single malt" when a lot of different barrels, some virgin oak, some sherry oak, and some bourbon oak, are mixed together?

That is not a "single malt" anything to me, even though it is often really delicious and superior to single barrels. This said, when a single barrel is really good, it is really good across the board. Every bottle will be really good, whereas other offerings that continually mix casks (barrels) together can sometimes be good and sometimes not so good, from one year to the next.

Since the good bottlers taste a cask and determine if they like it, IB's can be quite good sometimes. This said, not all IBers are going for the superior product. Some are just trying to make a buck and squeeze buy with a pretty good product in the process if possible. It's no surprise that the best IB's often charge top dollar for their bottles because the casks cost them more to buy and also because their reputation allows them to charge more.

Once in a while, we can get lucky and find an IB of a whisky that is dynamite and not too expensive. That is the "ah hah" moment we all crave, and yes it can happen. We can also pay too much for a mediocre whisky, as well. Unfortunately, that happens all too much. Alas, if we could taste a bottling before buying it, well, that would be the trust test, but it's just not possible for most of us. I have found that "whisky tastings" are often too expensive for what is offered and the offerings are very middle of the road and rarely feature IB's.

1) Of course the SMWS is an independent bottler - they select & bottle casks from a number of distilleries under their own branding.

2) @rigmorole The designations of what make Single Malt Scotch Whisky or otherwise are as proposed by the SWA and written into HMRC and EU laws. "Single" refers to point of origin, so a Single Malt Scotch Whisky can be one cask, 2 casks mixed together, or 20,000 casks mixed together. What you're getting in a distillery-produced Single Malt is a flavour profile of exactly what the team want you to have (be it the master blender, product group, or whoever).

If it's not single cask, then it's a blend of barrels. If those barrels all come from one distillery, it's "Single". If not, it's "Blended". And if the juice has been produced using the methods defined in the list (incl. ageing) then it's "Whisky". That includes using E150a for colouring.

3) It's unhelpful to polarise these things to "good" whisky or "bad" whisky. An outfit as small as an IB has no incentive to try to fool people into buying substandard whisky, because it just means nobody will buy from them in future. It's more a case of doing the best job you can given the supplies you've got, whilst also keeping an eye on the future, and then "best job" is measured based on what that IB thinks is most important to them & their business.

4) One of the most consistently superb IBs I've come across is Berry Brothers & Rudd, via their Berry's Own Selection bottlings. They're getting quite good availability going through out the UK now, and each outturn is filled with great whisky.

In reference to your "ah-ha moments", a couple of years ago they had a 4 year old Ledaig out at about £35 a bottle, which was absolute DYNAMITE, and last time I tried to find one it levitated out of my grasp for £180 at auction.

@two-bit-cowboy

Actually, the Bladnoch Forum bottlings are of different distilleries.

Bladnoch == Distillery/Whisky Brand with official bottlings of their own spirit.

Bladnoch Forum == Independent bottlings of whisky produced in other distilleries (although Bladnoch Forum have bottled some Bladnoch, also).

Here's some of the bottlings they've done: whiskybase.com/bottlers.php/

Has anyone ever tried anything from this Independent Bottler? samaroli.it/eng/selezioni.asp/…

I was recently made aware of this IB from a friend. According to some info I found by doing an internet search, this guy, who is Italian, is very well regarded by the Scotch industry for his ability to determne quality casks and know when the time is right to bottle a particular cask. Pricing I've seen is higher than other IB's, so I would hope it is "top shelf" stuff. I would love to hear from anyone who has tasted one of his bottles.

@bwmccoy: Samaroli is the 'best of the best'! Samaroli bottled Springbank's are legendary and rightly so, priced accordingly! We don't see his Whiskies often enough but when we do it is like the second coming.

I wish all members had the opportunity to see Samaroli's offerings, at least once but preferably more often. These are the yardstick, 'ne plus ultra'!

Slainte!

@A'bunadhman - Thanks for the prompt reply. I may a local connection to some of his bottles. Here's a list of what was available a month ago; NV Samaroli “Evolution Pure Malt”, 1990 Samaroli “Glen Garioch”, 1996 Samaroli “Caol Ila”, 1997 Samaroli “Isle of Jura”, 1991 Samaroli “Macallan”

1983 Samaroli “Linkwood”

1978 Samaroli “Bunnahabhain”

1967 Samaroli “Tomintoul”

Wish I would have know then what I know now. I'll let you know if any are still available and if I decide to purchase any if they are. Thanks again for the reply!

@bwmccoy: What a list! Where to start? Macallan, Linkwood??

As an aside, a very serious European collector had well over 1,000 bottles stolen last year - This part of his collection all Springbanks with hundreds of Samaroli bottles and many extra special OB's, platinum labels, decanters, jugs etc. hundreds of Springbank Society bottles; almost all numbered bots.,all top notch small batch, specials. I (think) it was in Belgium. This guy was their no.1 collector and the theft was from secure (?) controlled atmosphere storage. He lost the lot: They disappeared! The CCTV. shows nothing: But, the numbers are well and truly circulated in Europe, so... Perhaps the worst feature is that this chap is a serious Whisky drinker and not a speculator, as you might imagine.

Cheers!

@A'bunadhman - there has got to be more to that story; inside job? Haven't heard that one before, thanks for sharing it. Man, that makes me sick just thinking about it!

Well, as I suspected... All of the Samaroli's are sold out, but they will let me know if anyone cancels their order. As for which one, I was thinking of the 78 Bunnahabhain. :-)