Which glass?

This seems like a novel glass. I love the flare and pool design, but I would really like to see somewhere to hold it without warming the whiskey.

@rigmorole Actually you can see some differences in where you place your nose, and placing nostrils closer to the edge of the glass will definitely bring the alcohol aroma back in to play in the nostrils, since that is where the alcohol is going, over the edge. The other place is to thrust it deeper into the glass so you get the ethanol before release. Two different ways to bring ethanol back into the equation, but remember that the NEAT glass gives you a third option, which most people enjoy better, and that is no strong alcohol hiding the aromas. Experiment with what is right for you. It is interesting that not everyone uses the Glencairn the same way either, and I applaud your foresight on asking them for their recommended way to use the glass. We constantly try to educate that every tool has a proper use. You don't use a crosscut saw the same way yoou use a ripsaw.

@Nolinske There is a place to hold the glass. grip it at the neck between the thumb and forefinger to cool, and hold it in the palm to warm. Try it. Also, that is why we are asking everyone to weigh in on the preference for stem. We intend to make the glass both ways, eventually, so we would like to get an idea of the usefulness of the stem, given the current recommendation on holding the glass by the neck. Thank you all for your comments, thus far.

@Yaklord All were mailed on the same day, so I would expect you to receive them soon. Please refer to your email for the recommended use.

@NilsG I'm willing to break out the scotch and give the glasses another try, but I'd like you to tell me what your objections to my first review were. I tried to do a fair test as best I could think to do one, but maybe I left something out and could do a better job. So help me out.

Thanks

@Arsilicat I'm willing to give the glasses a second try (except for my bell shaped glass - no nose at all in that one), after all, you went out on a limb to get some total unknowns to write reviews in a public forum, and you shouldn't suffer needlessly for that. I realize what I wrote was partly unfavorable, and partly based on my own preferences, but I tried to disclose my preferences for what they are out of respect for the kindness you showed in hooking us up with the glasses in the first place. If I could do a fairer test I'm willing to give it another shot. I'll incorporate some of the things you've discussed in my next trial, and use a couple different whiskies - perhaps using an unknown as I did was not as fair as using something I am more familiar with.

@NVGeo As somebody who paid for the glasses to try, and as an observer, I'm keen to see your take trying them again, though am somewhat disconcerted by your take that, because they showed kindness, you don't want to give a less-than-favorable review as a matter of record. It's the nature of an impression or review. Arsilicat has shown generosity, but it's also part business and all that. Just be honest with your impression. After all, most people who get the glasses (like me) will not be receiving them for free.

@Arsilicat, I just wanted to clarify that it's not the 'alcohol smell' on the nose that I appreciate; it's the concentration of aromas that came with the alcohol. I did try the glass with different types of spirits, and I did stick my nose in the glass (very deep into it), but it just didn't work for me. It may be that I'd have to retrain my nose more fundamentally to be able to distinguish the aromas in the NEAT glass. Aromas in the NEAT glass gave me a very different sensory experience than I had with the other glasses. It takes time to get used to most glassware.

Also, I'm not claiming to have provided a review, just giving my informal impressions as somebody who bought the glasses to give them a try, and who likes to drink a variety of alcohol. I make no claim to expertise, scientific approach, or comprehensiveness - just a summary of my experience.

Glencairn.

@NVGeo, @NilsG, @BlissinABarrel, @CanadianNinja, @Yaklord, @FMichael So far I really want to thank all of you who have contributed to this thread on your frank honesty and forthright style. Please be assured that every one of the comments we get from those of you who have shown true interest in finding out about NEAT are important to us. For us this is more about the science, and measuring and feeling what other people out there in our potential customer base think about the glass. We see all of it as constructive, and we realize that many people have different approaches to how they evaluate. Lets face it. None of us have degrees from a whisky evaluation school, and we find our own paths to understanding based on what we like or don't like. It is a field of opinions, and that is why there is no school.

It is the crucial point at which we unquestioningly accept someone's opinions without experiencing it for ourselves that we can begin to chip away at our own objectivity. Of course, objectivity is the most important thing here, and we would just as much like everyone to forget that we are the inventors trying to sell glasses here. We consider the feedback we get from you to be much more important regarding how we can either engineer a better product or improve the method of use. It is rare that we can find a forum to gather information that has proven to be interested more in the truth than whether they hurt someone's feelings. As long is criticism is constructive, we need it to produce a better product. Many people just contribute to a blog to read themselves in print or criticize something they have never tried just to prove they have an opinion. You guys are the best, and we appreciate your honesty. Carry on, and let us know how we can do better. George, Christine, Laura, and Lynda

@numen There is no question that retraining is necessary for some noses. Many noted drinkers and critics have come back over 6 months later after many retries and acknowledged that they use the glass exclusively. Some, of course will not go that far, and that is ok. If you continue to use it for at least some spirits, or as an accompanying tool to your total evaluation, its attributes will grow on you. It is difficult to separate strong aroma from strong alcohol. Sounds like you may have somewhat of a handle on that, and you do not see the strong alcohol as displeasing. As we study the science of smell, we find that there are a few disconcerting things about the shape of the ethanol molecule, in that it can fool the receptors into believing it should be "locked" in, even in a receptor which is not designed for the ethanol molecule (that is under the "lock" and "key" theory of what takes place in the nose). Once it is locked in, that receptor is useless for smelling anything. This where the add water crutch to reduce ethanol smell was born. Raise the surface tension, and slow down the most powerful evaporant so you can smell something else. (read previous threads here, because this one goes much deeper in detail, and opinion begins to mix with science of bonding in all the wrong proportions to result in unfounded opinion).

We have examined many physiological studies which prove that alcohol is neuropathological and actually can kill the neuron with repeated usage. Somewhere in the middle of the extremes, probably lies the truth. We do know that alcohol burns then numbs. Much of our favor to the NEAT glass design is that we tend to leave our noses in tact and still are able to enjoy drinking spirits neat. About 85% of whisky drinkers feel the same way (tequila is closer to 80%, and rum is closer to 92%). It is neither right nor wrong. It is the hieght of pragmatism. It is what it is. Choose wherever you wish to position yourself, and always be open and objective to new information. Thanks for all your input.

@numen Just a further addition to my previous post. Some of our biggest proponents are chefs, we live in Las Vegas, and we make an effort to know the great chefs around town with our wine club (Commanderie de Bordeaux) and spirits tastings. These guys think NEAT is the best thing for food pairings, because it leaves the nose intact for smelling the subtle seasonings in many of their courses. They are big supporters of smelling from within the oral cavity, with aromas coming up the back of the throat to the olfactory lobe. It actually opens up the acceptance of spirits to accompany gourmet cusine. As I sit here munching on some Mongolian beef for my bedtime snack, and drinking a shot of Nadura from my NEAT glass, I can assure you that there is something to this. Many spirits ambassadors are contacting us to use the glass for their spirits presentation dinners to sommeliers and bartenders.

There is one more area where NEAT contributes greatly to the overall experience. If you love good pipe tobacco or a great cigar, the alcohol doesn't do much for your appreciation. The alcohol free (nearly) aromas allow better tobacco enjoyment. We are working on getting the glass into cigar lounges, and I would suggest you look at the Lashes and Mustashes website. This young lady has a very novel approach an has a portable land yacht holding high end tastings of great whiskeys and cognacs and fine cigars, while digging the Atlanta Falcons in a private party on wheels. We have bestowed upon her the title of QHE (Queen of Hedonistic Excess). Worth a read anyway.

@numen Perhaps I did not make myself clear. I have no particular sympathy toward the NEAT folks. I'm going to be equally objective my second time around as i was the first time. What I am looking to do is make sure I give them a fair shake using their own advice, stand or fall. That is as much as I owe them and no more. If that means reopening my case file, so be it. But no mercy will temper my second trial, just as no mercy tempered my first. They get what they get. I'll be polite about it, however.

Hmm I didn't get my glasses yet. Maybe someone stole them from my neighborhood?? :(

@NVGeo In your case the only thing I thought was that it would have been better to use a whisky that you are more familiar with, especially if it takes you a few sittings to understand a nose (I know it usually does for me). But I can also see the argument that you would like to use a whisky that you don't know, and haven't already got used to the certain nose a different glass might give. Actually I thought about this last night when I was sniffing Corryvreckan. After I had done it with the NEAT I followed with Glencairn and I felt like I was returning to something familiar. So I see now that there can be a benefit of doing it with a whisky yet not tried.

@Numen I wonder if you did go back and forth between the different glasses when nosing. If so I would like to point out that if you nose from the NEAT after you've nosed from a Glencairn you've already there lost the whole point of NEAT's concept; which is to avoid numbing from the alcohol. Once you've nosed from a convergent glass your nose will already be affected by the alcohol and you can't fully appreciate the effect of the NEAT, and the comparison looses meaning. I've now tried the NEAT a few times, and if you start the nosing with the NEAT you can most certainly experience a good complex nose. Ok, overall nose is by no means as strong as with Glencairn, how could it be, but that's not really the point. Glencairn is focusing, NEAT is removing (to reveal more delicate aromas). And as for NVGeo going back and giving the NEAT a second chance, I think it is wrong to jump on him and accuse of bias. In fact by repeating and challenging your previous findings you AVOID bias. That's what a scientific approach is all about, it's not like you must stick with your first impression, but repeated testing reduces bias and I creases accuracy. And of course, when you try the NEAT glass, or any other glass you're trying, you SHOULD try to make the best out of it, it would be biased not to do that. On the contrary when you say you use the Glencairn as control, that if anything is biased, you've already concluded that this glass is the norm. In anyway, using a glass with with well designed curved edges as a control when the very thing you're testing is the effect if the shape of the glass, makes no sense. A proper control would be something like a petri-dish, without walls that can affect the aroma. I'm very sorry if I come of as a bit offensive, I really don't mean any disrespect, I just wish to express that I disagree and why. I think you write absolutely great whisky reviews, and clearly have a more profound understanding of whisky than me. And that is why I hope we can have a health discussion about this topic, which I find SO interesting.

So to move on and tell you all my own first impression. I'm still just in the beginning of my evaluation. I've started with how NEAT compares with Glencairn on some of my favourite peated buddies. So far I must say that the NEAT accomplishes what it claims to do in the sense it greatly reduces the alcohol sting. And the "sweet spot", as Arsilica calls it, the place where you're supposed to find all these aromas without the numbing alcohol is quite literally a sweet spot, it really brings forward the sweetness in the dram. However I do find that it's not only the alcohol that is being excluded from the sweet spot. e.g. with Laphroaig Quarter Cask it was as if the peat got divided up into two parts; in the sweet spot there was sweet peatyness, then outside that there was alcohol, and even further out past the rim I found a more raw peat aroma. If drinking for pleasure I would definitely prefer to have this raw peat in the mix with the sweeter stuff. But it was an interesting discovery to see this aroma I usually think of as one, being further divided into smaller sections. With Ardbeg Corryvreckan it was interesting to so just how effectively the NEAT removes the alcohol from the equation. For being such a powerful cask strength nose, there was virtually zero alcohol sting in the sweet spot, and I could find a sweetness that I do not experience with Glencairn, or at least they came out more clearly. Having said that, my personal preference for strong nosing sensations made my nosing experience of Corryvreckan more enjoyable when using the Glencairn.

From what I've experienced so far, the NEAT glass divides up the total nose into parts, or groups, which can be found in three locations: The sweet spot in the middle, on the divergent rim, and outside the rim. The good thing about this is that I find it easier to detect individual aromas easier when they are separated into smaller groups. But for the purpose of enjoyment, I miss being able to suck the entire world of the dram into my face at once.

Well those are my thoughts so far. I will continue exploring differences with other whiskies.

@NilsG Thanks for the response. Moving to your latter points (on my concern about possible bias), I wasn't thinking about a re-taste in itself. After all, with something like this, you have to re-train yourself to get the most out of it, so more experience is useful. I was just looking at the language used in the statement about his intention to re-try the glasses, and casting it in terms of appreciation for the freebie and not wanting them to "suffer" for it. I think that I understand the sentiment; we all want to be 'fair' in reviews -- or, as I think it is, accurate to our perceptions. We're good people and we like to please a bit. That's a reason why bloggers are supposed to state whether they receive samples for free from companies when they do reviews. My worry here was simply that NVGeo stated his desire to re-try the glasses, equating fairness with a desire to please (and apologizing for his own preferences). He explained it later, but I found the first statement to be a bit troubling from the perspective of somebody offering a review.

As for your note on the peat in the NEAT glass, I had a similar impression a long time ago with the Villeroy and Boch glasses. I gave them a try for a while. I told @Victor about my experience with them a while ago when discussing the impact of glassware on drinking spirits. The first time I used them with Talisker 18, I gagged because I found the whisky so unbelievably sweet! The peat was nowhere to be found. I tried it with a few other peaty whiskies and had a similar impression, that peat didn't make it up out of larger bowled glasses. The problem that I had with that glass was that it put the center of the alcohol right in the nose area, so anything over 40% really just killed my nose. It became impossible to try anything over 50%

As for my consumption order, I did each different spirit over about two hours. I didn't go back and forth between glasses, and I did alter the order somewhat between sessions. The Glencairn always came last, but I would switch between the Riedel single malt and the Riedel VSOP first (typically opting for the latter) to establish a control (and one with which I was familiar) for another flared lip glass, too. I usually also rested about 15 minutes at least between nosing, something that I do with any tasting session anyway [actually, when I taste a bunch of whiskies, I usually take 15 or so minutes between samples, at a minimum, with lots of water consumed, to cleanse the palate a bit and avoid palate contamination without losing reference].

More than anything else, I'm more likely to suffer palate fatigue after a while, regardless the glass. That usually happens around sample 5 or 6. My point about the Glencairn being my control is that it's the glass with which I am more readily familiar with the results (or its general impact on spirits writ large). It's all relative here because we're talking about experiential sensations. It's the same sort of thing that I did when I switched from regularly using the VSOP to the XO glasses. And then comparing the XO glasses to the Glencairn, which, every so often, produced very slight differences, but not enough to warrant attention for the daily drams.

@NilsG, @numen, @NVGeo, you guys are on the right track. A scientific method is definitely necessary to turn anything from opinion to fact. We appreciate what you are doing and the way you are going about it. George, Lynda, Christine, Laura

@Arsilicat - my cold is almost gone, which means I'll be doing my preliminary testing this Friday (March 1, using the remainder of my Penderyn - it is St. David's Day), and then a second test with a friend on March 8 (using a currently unopened 20cl bottle of Cragganmore 12).

That being said, I poured my friend a glass of Talisker 10 (his favourite) on Friday last week (using the NEAT). His first impressions were that the NEAT glass definitely gave the Talisker a different scent / flavour profile than he is used to, and now he's looking forward to the actual testing.

We'll be using a square shot glass, the NEAT, a Glencairn 'Canadian', and a standard Scotch tasting glass (I've posted pictures of the glassware on my blog - dan-the-tax-man.livejournal.com/55975.html

Well, these are certainly interesting. Friday is a payday, and that (as well as a new bottle of scotch) may warrant a trial run.

There are some interesting shapes and sizes when it comes to drinking spirits. I have quite a few Glencairns, I also use what I refer to as palm glass; it holds about 4 oz. I also have a number of snifters. I primarily use the palm glass...easy to hold and it does a nice job of presenting the whiskey from nose to finish.

@Wodha Succinct

@numen I see now that I was jumping to conclusions, I apologize. I thought so cause I didn't find the nose from the NEAT to be that weak, until I came back to it after nosing from Glencairn. But I've only tried whiskies with quite powerful noses to begin with so far, I don't have a full picture yet.

I would like to comment on another phenomenon that I've seen with the neat, and wonder if anyone else is experiencing the same. I don't get any legs! After tilting or swirling the glass the liquid just retreats back down leaving the wall of the glass dry. No slowly thickening line where the whisky reached. I'm very careful when washing my glasses so there is no residue if detergent or anything else. It seems to me the whisky simply don't adhere to the wall enough to be able to form legs. Any thoughts or explanations anyone?

Speaking of washing, The NEAT glasses are very easy to wash and dry. I like that. But I'd trade that in for legs.

I'm very embarassed to admit this, but I had accidentally chipped both of my glasses...

Several days ago after receiving them in the mail I was in the process of handwashing them when 1 slipped from my hand (hot soapy dish water), and just my luck it landed atop of the other causing both to chip.

As the old saying goes - if I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all - lol.

@FMichael oh no!!! How bad is it? And here I was going on about how easy they were to wash. Guess I should be more careful. I'm lazy so I wait till most of my glasses are used and the wash them all together, which means there's potential for a lot if collateral damage if I were to drop a glass. And who gave you a thumbs down for that comment? lol.

Real sorry to hear that @FMichael! Recently I seem to be having more than a few days like that myself!

Just posted a review of the Penderyn Welsh Single Malt based on my tasting experiment last night (NEAT Challenge - Part I). Full technical details of the evening (the quibbles and such) will be posted on my blog in the next day or two. Needless to say, it was an interesting experience, with some surprises thrown in.

@NilsG The glass that slipped outta my hand had a long crack, and the glass it landed atop of broke a sizeable chip on the rim...UGH!

@CanadianNinja we all have days like that don't we? It's why the Scottish Gods gave us scotch whisky!

I'm essssited to do a review soon. I never got the glasses but NEAT was kind enough to send me another set and I got it in the mail. I think I'm gonna have my friend blind fold me while I nose the glasses first then go from there! Woo! Thanks NEAT for going out of your way! :)

I use Glencairn glass most of the time. Sometimes I use the small ice wine glass that I got with the wine. Planning to buy a copita as it is nicer to swirl spirit around. But Glencairn will still be the main glass to do a tasting with.

I'm getting one of those distiller/snifter/nosing glasses on a foot, they look nice and functional. I dont like glencairn too much, it just isnt ergonomical to me and I dont like fatty fingers on my glass. I dont understand why a lot of Single Malt producers add tumblers to their giftpacks

Couple of thoughts here, especially about taking care of the glass. It is easy to clean, and you can get your fingers wrapped in a towel right into the glass. Many glasses break easily, and all, eventually with the slightest error in handling. I have cried over many a Riedel Sommelier Bordeaux stem at over $100 a copy. Remember that the rim sticks out for a reason. Its easy to chip. Do not "click" rims in a toast, but you can "clink" bowls lightly if you tilt the rim away from the impact point. Martinis are even easier to break, but since NEAT is hand blown, the stresses on the rim may be a little higher than those glasses that are machine molded. Take care, they are not cheap. Can't wait to see all of your reviews.

Attended the Universal Whiskey Experience Friday night and Master Classes yesterday (Saturday). This is our third appearance in as many Nth events. We were extremely favorably received by scotch distillers, critics, and well over 30 glasses showed up at the show as the preferred choice of nosing vessel, so we see it beginning to catch on very well, and with many notables. Good luck in your tastings and please let us know how you are proceeding as well as any concerns. George