Japanese whisky thread!

@CanadianNinja, thanks for starting this Discussion topic. That's good to hear about new Japanese distilleries coming on-line with soon to be fully-matured products.

As for a Japanese whisky regulatory society, it would seem to be a good idea, so long as they do not imitate the hidebound excesses of the SWA. Whenever you give permanent power status to an organization, those running it tend to look for more things to do and larger empires to build. Bureaucracy is the death of progress.

‘Whenever you give permanent power status to an organization, those running it tend to look for more things to do and larger empires to build. Bureaucracy is the death of progress.’

While I don’t entirely disagree with this @Victor, I do think that the Japanese whisky industry is long overdue for some form of regulation.

@CanadianNinja, yes, I agree with you.

Also @Victor, another NAS Japanese whisky that has always been one of my staples is Suntory Whisky Very Rare Old.

Unfortunately, I’d be very surprised if it were available in North America though....

Hmmm ... Being blunt, I think the Japanese market needs a serious Karate kick up the arse! Moving away from age statements, dropping fan favourites and continually rising prices (and often using 50cl bottles) is not an attractive trait.

Would a JWA improve this? Not sure, and there's no guarantee that they will be transparent with certain aspects of the regulations. I don't mind that I'm likely drinking NikkaNevis or some other hybrid, if it's good, but I would like to know what I'm drinking.

There are very few Japanese whiskys that I'd seek out, and only then if on offer, and the whole market would need a serious overhaul before my mind, and spending habits, changes. Reverting to age statements and fair prices would be the first step.

As it is, the whole industry comes across like Mortlach did a few years back and, news-flash , that ain't a good look.

Excellent post @RianC.

I agree with everything you’ve said here.

A back ground:

Yamazaki Sherry Cast 2013 named best by Jim Murray in 2015. Then the world went mad buying up more Japanese whisky than it can consume. This drained the stock of Japanese whisky and prices shot up. The Japanese whisky drain continues with loss of age statements, Hakushu 12 in 2018. Finally, in May/June 2019 being the last hold out on age stated whisky Nikka announced it would drop age statement on the Nikka 12 and release its premium blend under the names "Tailored" and "Date". Many Japanese distilleries and producers turned to importing whisky stocks from the UK for blending with Japanese whiskies. This practise has extended to American, Canadian, and Irish, whiskies, in this four year period. Some brands openly tout their whisky as "world blended" Ichiro and Togouchi as examples. The suspect brands are:

Matsui, Nikka WFTB, Nikka Black, Nikka Red, Togouchi, and Ichiro. There are other's which I shall not name.

Current:

Would regulation help? In my opinion, probably NOT. The major rum distillers in Barbados recently attempted to put standards on Bardados produced rum. Ferrand "Plantation", a French cognac and rum producer dissented because it's rums are barrel aged in France. If regulations regarding production were imposed on Japanese whisky? The rarity and price would most likely, sky rocket, on what is in the current market.

Recent Experience:

Disclosure: I do not work for nor do I promote the sale of whiskies:

Recently, while browsing the I aisles of our government run liquor monopoly. I overheard a customer asking advise of a clerk "on which Japanese Whisky to buy". The clerk stared blankly like "a deer caught on coming headlights" and had no answer.

I interrupted the silence and asked "what were you considering"? The response, "Togouchi 15 year old for $291.00, for my boss".

A Conversation:

Store browser - you do know it's a blend of Canadian and Japanese whiskies?

For my boss - really!, what's Japanese?

Store browser - hey, there is some Single Malt non age stated Yoichi and Mayagikyo on the table. We recently tasted them, II liked the Yoichi. I suspect it's the closest we will get to real Japanese whisky for sometime

For my boss - what about real and good Japanese whiskies?

Store browser - the only recommendation would be an auction but, then you are looking at least $500 and up. Christmas is around the corner and the next one isn't for a few months.

For my boss- (picks up a Nikka Taketsuru Pure Malt) What about this one?

Store browser- I had it a few years ago - nice balanced flavours, tropical fruit Persimmon, lychee, mild pineapple, touch of smoke. Would I buy it today ... no ... the recent reviews indicate - disappointment. Besides, it's a blend of Mayagiko, Yoichi and another of type ( from one of the two Nikka Grain or Nikka Malt)

For my boss- can I get this Yoichi in a box?

Store clerk- yes, we have gift boxes by the cash register

Today:

Buyer beware: Do your research if you want "real" Japanese Whisky even, then you will never really know.

The Real Stuff (provided it has not been faked) : Is most likely available at auction houses

Expectation: re-adjust and lower them. Some current offerings are decent. I don't expect any to WOW me.

Make friends with people who are happy to share their collection of Japanese whiskies or try at a tasting bar.

When buying for the sake of trying do a bottle split with like minded people.

These are just my opinions I'm no expert

Links: There are others but, my browsing habits are random.

: whiskyanalysis.com/index.php/2019/…

reddit.com/r/whiskey/…

Research sites:

www.reddit.com/r/worldwhisky/

www.whiskybase.com

@fiddich1980 thank you very much for your post. That is very useful information.

It is well to add that it was not just Murray's Japanese choice for World Whisky of the Year which had a big influence on the runs on Japanese age-stated whisky. The asidora (am tv show in Japan) on Taketsuru and his Scottish wife reportedly had a big influence in shifting Japanese domestic attitudes toward favouring age-stated older products. By my recollection it was the year 2014 when all the age-stated Japanese whiskies started rapidly disappearing from the shelves worldwide.

If I had it to do over I'd have 5 or 6 additional bottles of age stated Japanese whisky in my cabinet than I now do.

A bit of redundant information and a new phrase:

"Taketsuru Pure Malt will be discontinued and replaced with a new no-age-statement whisky"

thespiritsbusiness.com/2020/01/…

@fiddich1980 When they discontinue one NAS for another as yet unknown NAS this is almost some kind of monty python kind of logic no?

@cricklewood I'm sure those 1,099 bottle of Nikka Taketsuru Pure Malt NAS, online at the LCBO will sellout quickly with that news.

Great post @fiddich1980.

‘The asidora (am tv show in Japan) on Taketsuru and his Scottish wife reportedly had a big influence in shifting Japanese domestic attitudes toward favouring age-stated older products.’

This is 100% correct @Victor. After this show (often referred to by audiences simply as Massan!) aired, whiskies disappeared from shelves all over Japan almost overnight.

@fiddich1980 I bought a bottle of each from LCBO recently and can confirm the Taketsuru is far inferior compared to the Yoichi NAS and Miyagikyo NAS

I stumbled across this infographic recently. Perhaps those who have posted already on this thread would care to comment. I couldn’t find what the definition of ‘fake’ was…(ie. Japanese whiskey blended with Scotch/bourbon/Canadian; not distilled/aged/bottled in Japan; other reasons/criteria). Any and all commentary is appreciated!

nomunication.jp/2018/07/…

Hi @Pudge72 I haven’t posted in this thread before but I have a comment..

The Dave Broom interpretation from the link to the interview with him says that Japanese whisky has to be distilled in Japan.

Presumably therefore any whisky that contains whisky not distilled in Japan is a fake one?

Might be a bit of a simplistic approach and I haven’t cross referenced all of the whisky’s indicated as fake on the chart to check this. I would again assume if he said that and also did the chart then it would be correct.

Correction, it doesn’t say he did the chart. Presumably it was the chap from nomunication? If so would be helpful to have his interpretation or at least clarification.

What do you think?

@Pudge72 Interesting breakdown.

Here is my opinion on the article. On a quick visual scan I would agree with the flow chart. My interpretation is that the distilleries which disclose the using Canadian, Scottish and Irish in their(Japanese Spirit) blends are classified and "world whisky". Those that do not disclose or are not being transparent about their whiskies origin are being classified as "Fake whiskies". There may not be any Japanese distilled whisky or new make in their blends. The criteria being that their is no Japanese juice in their bottling or disclosure of Japanese produced whisky. The final category "Shochu" is interesting because it adds a spirit which is not classified as whisky into the blend.

The Ichiro breakdown is note worth because the brand is open about using other countries whiskies in their blend, hence "World Whisky". However, the pricey Card Series bottling by them is strictly a Japanese home grown product.

I did not see Ohishi Distillery listed. wonder how the author would classify Ohishi Distillery? It being a spirit distilled from "malted and unmalted made rice.*

*insearchofelegance.net/blog/2016/…