Waxy as a descriptor

After a bit of research I see Clynelish is known for it's waxy notes. I've only tried it once previously during a mixed tasting of 6 different single malts and I don't recall noticing it back then. It's described as being like snuffed out candles - so I guess that helps answer my original question.

I'm not particularly fond of the waxy note in whiskies. Candles might be a good descriptor as to how it tastes

@Hewie Clynelish 14 is a bit of an acquired taste and slightly off-putting on first opening. My experience is that the so-called waxiness goes away with some airtime and after a couple of months in the open bottle it becomes a very nice dram. I always have one in inventory, but I'm still not quite sure what a waxy note is. I only know that I like it a lot after I give it a good long breath of air. Cheers.

"Waxy" is one of Serge Valentin's most prized qualities in a whisky. He uses this descriptor for Clynelish and also for Glen Ord. To me it's like the smell of unused wax candles. He likes it especially when combined with certain fruits. Above all pineapple, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, that's how I've come to know the term.

Now if someone can just explain to me what "grassy"and "barnyard" is supposed to mean.

@McTeague

Grassy, smells like grass

Barnyard, smells like animal poop.

What I don't understand is "Barley citrus" - ralfy mixes these and other things often. I like barley. I've consumed it in "risotto", soups, on its own, as a tea, fermented as beer, and yes, even in it's distilled form, But not as vitamin c- packed scurvy reducing juice.

There is NO CITRUS IN BARLEY

You might like this previous thread:

connosr.com/whisky-lingo-whisky-discussion…

@Nozinan, I have long been thinking about the origin of citrus flavours in whisk(e)y. Whence do they originate, from grain, oak, yeast, or water? What I see is that while there are occasionally citrus flavours from whiskies made from grains like rye, wheat, or corn, that citrus flavours are far more common in whiskies made from barley. What do I think is going on with citrus flavours? I think that they derive from the yeasts used for fermentation, but that the citrus flavours are far more likely to be present in barley whisky than from whisky made from other grains.

If that explanation is incorrect, then the only other place that makes sense to me is that citrus flavours could be an occasional component of older re-used oak barrels. This explanation seems less likely to me than the earlier one because some distillery products show relatively consistent citrus across time, but old re-used oak barrel products would likely be highly variable from batch to batch of re-used staves.

@McTeague Thanks for your input. I guess I just haven't sniffed enough candles in my time - they just don't seem to have that much of a distinctive smell to me. Interesting how we are all so different when it comes to what we detect and then relate various scents to. Cheers

@Victor I'm not a proper chemist but I would hazard a guess that the distinctive citrus notes we detect in barley distillate is from certain esters and aldehydes produced by the yeast under certain fermentation conditions. I know from my beer home brewing experiments that the same ingredients fermented with the same yeast under different temperature will produce different flavours. As I'm sure you're aware, there us a staggering array of constituent molecules in fermented and distilled spirits, most of which are present in minuscule amounts, but which collectively provide the vast range of flavor profiles we enjoy exploring so much. Cheers, Hewie

@Victor I accept what you say, but there are lots of flavours we get in whisky that don't necessarily exist in barley. We get chocolate, nutmeg, etc... No one says "definitely a hint of barley chocolate".

@Hewie, certain variations in the conditions of fermentation also seem quite plausible to me to describe the most common origins of citrus flavours in whisky. I would like to read studies on this subject. I'll bet that there are some experienced distillers out there who can answer that question. I reiterate that I find citrus flavours to be far more common in whiskies made from barley than from other grains. Put another way, citrus flavours are very common in whiskies made from barley, and relatively rare in whiskies made from other frequently used whisky grains.

@Nozinan, I do find the expression 'barley citrus' to be imprecise and somewhat misleading. So far I have not noticed any citrus in my barley soup!

@Nozinan A bit like, "notes of used bandages" a smell (but not a taste) with which I'm sure you are familiar. But did you ever associate it with any peated Islay malt?

@BlueNote That's different. Something can smell like used bandages but not be used bandages, because used bandages are a thing.

Barley citrus doesn't exist. So nothing can smell like it....

@Nozinan Ah, yes. Quite right. Barley used bandages perhaps? Haha.

Now that's a unique note!!

@Nozinan That is a great thread you linked to up above. I'm new on Connosr so I haven't seen that before - some humorous insights into our nonsensical whisky terminology there.

Sulphur is the one that gets me. I find the smell and taste of sulphur utterly repulsive and it's ruined many a sherried whisky for me (due to the use of bad sherry butts that have used sulphur candles). How anyone can use sulphur as a positive tasting note is beyond me, but such as the joy of whisky objectivity

Wait—was I wrong all these years to always interpret "waxy" in reviews as a description of the whisky's viscosity? Are people actually talking about a taste?

Mind blown.

@Ol_Jas Yes... you were wrong all these years. You have lost the right to drink Scotch. I will be happy to take your most waxy bottles off your hands.

Well, I guess that's my Clynelish 14 that so disappointed me a few years ago failed to exhibit any waxiness.

@Hewie

Fair point. It's beeswax candles I was thinking of.

@Nozinan

I've never tasted grass or manure in a whisky, is what I meant by the comment.

@Ol_Jas I think viscosity is an element. But the taste of candle wax as well.