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Bottle or palate?

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Wierdo started a discussion

Discussion inspired by @RianC's recent re-review of Ardbeg Ten which he feels isn't as good as previous bottles.

Not to dispute the veracity of Rian's review but it got me thinking of whiskies I've loved in the past that I go back to and they don't seem as good.

I'm thinking of the likes of Lagavulin 16, Highland Park 18, Ardbeg Uigedail. Whiskies i thought were outstanding the first time I tried them. But a few years down the line I'm not so impressed. Yes they're still good but they're not as good as I remember them to be.

So has the whisky changed or have I? Has my palate developed? Have I tried more whiskies so that my expectation of what makes a great whisky is higher? Is my memory playing tricks on me? Or is the whisky just not as good?

What are people's thoughts?

5 years ago

13 replies

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

Well, nothing is ever as special as the first time....

I remember my first time. It was at university. That Costa Rican coffee (with an amazing muffin)... I've never had such a good tasting combination since.

If we taste something new and it coincides with our palate being primed just the right way, the same thing in the future may never be quite as fantastic. Even if the taste is as good.... the novelty is not there.

Just like the new Amrut I tried yesterday. Heaven. But will it be as special the second time? I'll know soon... wink

5 years ago 3Who liked this?

@Victor
Victor replied

Both development of one's palate and great differences in batches occur. No two batches of whisk(e)y are the same; no two bottles of whisk(e)y are the same. It is human vanity to try to pin down 'once and for all' the quality of any named beverage. The reality is that we can only assess this particular sample at this particular time, and that is all the universality of observation we can legitimately claim.

Social and culinary context can also cloud any individual assessment.

5 years ago 5Who liked this?

@RianC
RianC replied

Nice thread @Wierdo. I'd say this last year or so I've returned to quite a few bottles and in general have been a little disappointed. In some cases it's clear the whisky is below par but other times I'm asking myself the question, 'Is it me?'

I agree with @Nozinan in that our expectations are always higher second time round. What is it Ralfy says? 'Whisky is the law of diminishing returns' or something like that. I think he's right though.

re. the Ardbeg - To be fair, I could see some folk giving it a higher mark as they might prefer that kind of bottling but for me when I pour Ardbeg 10 I want to be slapped with a lime soaked, smoked kipper that's dressed in sea weed, not have a vanilla forward, creamy malt vibe going on. I've probably always wanted that though so no change there then smile I have wondered if my sampling of the Corry has swayed my palette though? Oogy never did that though so I'm sticking my neck out that it's a sub par bottle.

5 years ago 3Who liked this?

RikS replied

@Wierdo My thoughts - yes to all the questions, with the possible exception of the last one.

I like a frosty Coca-Cola on a day at the beach, and a nice creamy Camembert on an autumn evening. Now, get that Coke in, and try the Camembert within 10min and it's an absolute disaster. Toothpaste and orange is another good example.

So, in my mind: I believe that a large part of my 'experience' is psychological, but I'm increasingly becoming acutely aware of bridging, pairing or priming and I often do note significant differences in my experience of same dram / bottle from day to day.

5 years ago 3Who liked this?

@OdysseusUnbound

I agree with pretty much all the pevious comments. The best we can do when buying blind is find people whose palate is close to our own. Here on Connosr, I can more or less rely on @Nozinan and @talexander for a close approximation on scotch. Our palates are close enough that I can rely on their general impressions. Out there online, Chip Dykstra (Rum Howler blog) has a palate that’s fairly close to mine, so I can take cues from him. I enjoy Scotch Noob’s reviews, but our palates are completely different. I’ve read some of his reviews and thought “Are we tasting the same whisky?” I also enjoy Ralfy’s reviews, but I think he’s pickier than I am. So I don’t dislike the same things as him, but I’ve liked every Ralfy-Recommended malt I’ve tried.

5 years ago 5Who liked this?

@talexander
talexander replied

@Wierdo That may be the greatest conundrum consumers like us grapple with as we taste, assess, evaluate and write about whisky. Our palates are constantly evolving (or devolving) but more than that, so many factors come into play: what we ate or drank beforehand, the aromas in the room, our mood at that particular time and the context of our enjoyment of the dram. A few years ago I was on a trip to Islay with a couple of whisky-loving friends (one a younger shit-disturber, the other older and more conservative, both with excellent palates and very capable of giving detailed tasting notes every time). We were having dinner in the town of Bowmore with some people we met, and played a game where each of us went over to the bar in the restaurant (which was in another room), brought back a dram, and we all had to nose and taste and guess what it was. The shit-disturber came back with something that everyone was perplexed by; my older friend surmised that it was a bourbon-cask-matured Bowmore; I had no idea but rightly guessed that it wasn't scotch. It was Jack Daniel's. My older friend felt humiliated; and I was amazed that I couldn't guess it (I can usually pick out Jack anytime, and that was part of the final exam of a spirits course I took). This taught me that no matter how good you are, your palate will change simply due to your environment and the context of your tasting.

5 years ago 7Who liked this?

@Victor
Victor replied

@talexander, eloquently stated.

As to your town of Bowmore encounter with the Jack Daniel's,..and I very much credit you as being something of an expert in knowledge and appreciation of Jack, man, I've had 7 different Old No. 7s that might as well have been 7 different whiskeys. Old No. 7 is one of the great chameleons of batch variation.

5 years ago 1Who liked this?

@talexander
talexander replied

@Victor Which is interesting as they pride themselves on their consistency - and being such a huge producer, one wonders how they can have that kind of batch variation given the massive number of casks they are blending together. Then again, they may rightly assume that their consumer base would never be able to tell the difference anyway....

5 years ago 2Who liked this?

@Victor
Victor replied

@talexander, it is experience rather than prejudice which leads me to conclude the latter.

...and I expect that every batch of Old No. 7 works fine with Coca Cola.

5 years ago 3Who liked this?

@talexander
talexander replied

@Victor Ha - yes but Jack & Ginger is much better.

5 years ago 1Who liked this?

@Victor
Victor replied

@talexander, here's where I confess my ignorance. I've never had Jack Daniel's with ginger ale. Bring on the Canada Dry! ...and I'll have to pick up another couple of minis of Old No. 7 to go with it. I am preparing myself for an exciting new experience!

5 years ago 3Who liked this?

@nooch
nooch replied

Interesting discussion...I can relate given my experience with Glenmorangie 18yo. Early in my whisky exploration I got a bottle at duty free and buzzed through it quite quickly. I thought it was spectacular stuff - and great value for money given the price at duty free. I resolved to always pick up a bottle when I could as I crossed the border. I was excited to pick up my second bottle, but was left felling that it was a bit thin and overly sweet, rather than feeling more balanced as I had felt it was earlier. I’m going to guess that it was my palate that changed more so than the bottle. By the time I had been introduced to my second bottle I had walked down Octomore Rd, for example. I had tried more cask strength whiskies as well. I think as we grow in our experiences our tastes and interests evolve. But that first bottle sure was good.

5 years ago 1Who liked this?

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