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Getting Creative: Vattings

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By @Victor @Victor on 17th Apr 2011, show post

Replies: page 9/10

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

@BlueNote, It's a labour of love. Thanks for the kind, cask strength words.

about one year ago 1Who liked this?

@cricklewood
cricklewood replied

@paddockjudge you've found a good use for Peking Duck sauce err I mean Lot 40 Cask Strength 2019 laughing

Legacy at cask strength sounds lovely and something they should consider selling.

Out of curiosity what do you figure is the breakdown of that Wiser's 23 cask strength. Since it too contains a certain percentage of rye in the blend?

about one year ago 1Who liked this?

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

@cricklewood, unless it is 23 YO CS Rye added to the 23 YO CS DD Corn, I’m guessing a mixture of column rye (Triple Barrel/DoubleStill/Whatever) and pot still rye (Lot 40 and/or Wendel Clark) not exceeding the ratio of 10:1

about one year ago 4Who liked this?

@fiddich1980
fiddich1980 replied

@paddockjudge , @cricklewood The Wiser's 23 CS is mostly corn or at least that is what I got from tasting it. The rye content is minimal assuming the 9.09% rule. @JasonHambrey mentions on his website "a blend of 23 year old corn whisky with a splash of younger column distilled rye whisky at full blend proof of 128.6 (64.3%)". Some additional information on the rye component is provide by Livermore (in a WhiskyBuzz podcast) whom mentioning "a column double distilled rye with accentuated cinnamon and clove flavours".

I do not know if this information is helpful but, I'll put it out for you to consider.

about one year ago 3Who liked this?

@cricklewood
cricklewood replied

@fiddich1980 thanks for catching all that. I have to admit I listened to the podcast but that part of it didn't stick with me

about one year ago 0

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

@fiddich1980, thanks for the info on W 23 and its rye content. DD (column) rye is nowhere near Lot 40 on the flavour spectrum. It may possibly resemble Walker's Special Old (Hiram Walker). I think much of the flavour in this rye comes from the barrels with very little from the double column distillation.

about one year ago 1Who liked this?

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

@fiddich1980, @cricklewood, Livermore points out a single column distilled rye goes into Wiser's 23 YO Blended Cask Strength...he also mentions the possibility of it being the only (coined the term) "Cask Strength Blend" in the world...perhaps.

The significance of once only column distilled rye is the retention of rye grain characteristics, some of the naturally occurring rye flavours (Guaiacol, 4-Ethyl Guaiacol 219 ppb, 4-Ethyl Phenol) remain after one pass through the column still (beer still)...they don't boil the piss out of it with a second distillation. Bourbon is single (column, unless otherwise stated) distilled, sometimes double distilled.

All of that aside, a magnificent whisky, my favourite Canadain!!

about one year ago 2Who liked this?

@OdysseusUnbound

@paddockjudge I always assumed the “single column distilled rye” implied that the second distillation was done in the pot still (a.k.a. Lot 40). That’s how Dr Don explained Lot 40 to me. Wouldn’t a single distillation yield a product that’s too low in abv to be categorized as whisky? Maybe I’ve misunderstood Dr Don’s explanation. I teach history and philosophy, not chemistry.

Bourbon gets one pass in the beer still and then goes through a doubler or thumper doesn’t it? Kind of like a second distillation, isn’t it? Maybe my understanding of the whole process is wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time...

about one year ago 2Who liked this?

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

@OdysseusUnbound, there are different styles of stills. The second distillation can take place in a column still or pot still. Yes, Lot 40 is first column distilled, then pot distilled. Wiser’s (Hiram Walker) double column distills corn, wheat, barley, and rye. They also column and pot distill corn, rye, and barley. ... and wheat. I believe they also triple distill (or more) for vodka.

Fermented grain at Walkerville yields a 15% beer. The first pass through the still will yield spirit above 50% abv.

about one year ago 3Who liked this?

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

I've recently enjoyed a vatting of Wiser's 23 YO and Lot No 40 CS Third Edition in the ratio of 2:1 with a few drops of Deanston's Virgin Oak to round it out. I'm calling this The Livermore. Thanks Don, for a decade of great whisky. tumbler_glass

about one year ago 2Who liked this?

@fiddich1980
fiddich1980 replied

@paddockjudge The Wiser's 23 rounds out the sharp(Star Anise/Sandalwood and the eau de cologne note are rounded out) and pointy(those weird floral gardenia & Austin Rose) elements of the Lot 40 CS 3rd. edition.Those unbalanced and discorded notes from the Lot 40CS become harmonious background finishing notes. The corn from the Wiser's 23 make the blend more focus - keeping it simple stupid. The Lot 40 CS 3rd. edition rye notes shine with the blending. The blend is sweeter(candy floss making machine and touches of caramel corn) in the sum of it's parts. I did not have a Deanston Virgin on hand but, a Kilkerran 8 CS at ABV 55.7% comes in a pinch.

You suggestion is an EXCELLENT use for the Lot 40 CS 3rd edition.

about one year ago 5Who liked this?

@casualtorture

So me and a friend are planning on taking 1oz of my Laphroig 10CS and 1oz of is Lore and blending them. I'll report back the results after quarantine.

11 months ago 2Who liked this?

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

A Vatting of Booker’s even numbered batches from 2015. Almost a year in the bottle and marrying nicely.

9 months ago 3Who liked this?

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@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@paddockjudge I find my individual favourite of the 2015 releases is the -01. What I also find is that the vatting of several 2015 batches seems to create a product that is closer to the 2015-01 profile.

9 months ago 2Who liked this?

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

@Nozinan, 2015 - 01, I’ll check my notes to see if I’ve tried that one.

9 months ago 2Who liked this?

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

@Nozinan, I checked my notes for Booker’s 2015-01... seven bottles consumed and it pairs well with pecan butter tarts on a Friday afternoon smirk

9 months ago 2Who liked this?

@Victor
Victor replied

@paddockjudge that was a most excellent decision to have purchased 7+ bottles of Booker's 2015-1 ! My favourite release of Booker's ever.

9 months ago 2Who liked this?

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@Victor I think I may have picked up a few of those bottles for him during the harvest of 2015.

Booker’s is one that I would like to have on my cabinet in perpetuity.

9 months ago 2Who liked this?

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

@Victor, yes 7+++++++ bottles of Booker's 2015-01. @Nozinan helped to bolster the inventory (again. He is a bad influence!) as did my brother who arrived at my door one day while I was recovering from the extreme heat experienced in my underground work environment (I was napping). When I awoke I discovered four bottles of 2015-01 sitting on the dinner table smile I had told him that I was looking for some 2015-01. He found some in Sault St. Marie ON. When I paid him for the bottles he mentioned that he picked up only four bottles because he wasn't sure how much I liked it. Fast forward five years...I recently gifted a bottle to his whisky savvy son.

9 months ago 2Who liked this?

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@paddockjudge I believe we had an agreement whereby I would supply you with another bottle should you run out before I do. I’m fairly certain that will happen...

9 months ago 2Who liked this?

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

@Nozinan, I did not read your post two months ago. Having read it today, I do recall your generous offer to provide me with a bottle of Booker’s 2015-01 should I runout before you do.... an offer I can’t refuse.

Cheers. tumbler_glass

7 months ago 2Who liked this?

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

While having a pour of Glenlivet 21 YO with @cricklewood (via social media) I could not resist the urge to continue my quest for “my perfect whisky”.

Tonight’s Single Malt Blend contains Glengoyne 21 YO, Glenlivet Archive 21 YO, and Laphroaig Lore in the ratio of 6:3:1. Delicious, but the quest continues...

6 months ago 6Who liked this?

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@YakLord
YakLord replied

Not so much into vatting, but I do experiment with infusions... This is for use in some cocktails in a week or so...

6 months ago 2Who liked this?

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@TracerBullet
TracerBullet replied

@YakLord Nice! Been doing some of the same. I have some bourbon infusing with pear, vanilla and figs for a cocktail I've been wanting to try. Have to wait about one more week to complete the infusion. Fun stuff!

6 months ago 2Who liked this?

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

This is a distillery (twinned) release, a vatting of ex-bourbon casks and a separate vatting of ex-Sherry casks, both from 1973, 1977, 1988, 1991, 2002, and 2008. Both very delicious.

After first tasting the Bourbon matured vatting, I wondered why would anyone age the same distillate in Sherry casks? I tried the Sherry matured vatting and my doubts disappeared. They are both very good, clean examples of (well blended) masterful vatting. Both are very delicious.

5 months ago 6Who liked this?

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@YakLord
YakLord replied

@paddockjudge I wondered about that Tomatin set. I've only ever had their 12, 15, and 18, as a mini-tasting set, which are all primarily sherry Cask matured.

5 months ago 2Who liked this?

@OdysseusUnbound

@paddockjudge Ohhhhh, I'm jealous! I really like Tomatin. @YakLord The Tomatin 12 from that 12/15/18 set is what got me exploring their range. I liked the 14 Year Port Cask matured more than the 15 or the 18. It's a masterful Port finishing that doesn't overwhelm the whisky. Whoever is running things over at Tomatin is doing a great job.

5 months ago 3Who liked this?

@Victor
Victor replied

"Abandon all hope ye who enter here." This is not for the squeamish, and has aesthetic elements which border on the macabre. Well, this is not a vatting of whiskies, but an experiment in alteration and improvement of substandard whiskies.

As a whisky lover who evolved over a period of time and tasting experience into being extremely sulphur sensitive I have rued the whiskies which I was unfortunate enough to have purchased which are moderate or heavy on the sulphur. I don't like any sulphur whatsoever in my whisky, but I can tolerate a small amount without it ruining the whisky for me. Moderate or large amounts of sulphur will always ruin the whisky for me.

So I have wondered, "Can I get rid of the sulphur which is already in the whisky?" I decided to do an experiment using charcoal to neutralise/de-nature the sulphur in the whisky. If charcoal removes impurities like sulphur from water, I reasoned, might it not also work for whisky? I thought to use a standard charcoal water filter, but decided not to do so because I would likely need to use a large portion of whisky to fill the pitcher to conduct the experiment. So I tabled the idea of using a charcoal water filter, for now.

What about using activated charcoal, the stuff sold as nutitional supplement capsules for the purpose of aiding digestion by reducing gas and bloating in the GI tract? My initial idea was that the activated charcoal would sit at the bottom of the vatting bottle for days to weeks and then I would pour it off.

I used three sulphur contaminated Scottish malts in my cabinet: 1) OB Mortlach 12 yo, 2) Tomatin 15 yo Tempranillo, and 3) Glen Moray Port Cask. First a few words on each bottle: 1) I bought the Mortlach 12 because I had tasted a great sulphur free sample in 2019. This batch was not sulphur-free, not by a long shot. I can not enjoy this whisky at all; 2) I loved my Tomatin 15 Tempranillo at first, before long air exposure revealed that it was more than a little bit sulphur contaminated. This one I can drink and enjoy even now despite the sulphur, but the sulphur is an obvious and distracting major defect; 3) Glen Moray Port Cask Finish was recommended to me by several people as a stellar example of an inexpensive very enjoyable Scottish malt. That would be true if I didn't taste and small sulphur. I can not enjoy my bottle of Glen Moray Port Cask.

Other than advancing understanding, my primary objective is in making these and other sulphured whiskies in my cabinet drinkable.

So I dissolved the contents of activated charcoal capsules into sample bottles of 2 and 4 oz size containing the three whiskies mentioned above. Holy Crap! What have I done? The activated charcoal did not remain in lumps at the bottom of the sample bottles of whisky. The activated charcoal completely and immediately dissolved into the whiskies, turning them BLACK. These drinks are pretty ugly to look at now, and even a non-visual guy like me is put off by them. One day I'll start posting photos on Connosr to show you, but not yet.

Today, after 12 days, I sampled the results. Estimates are strictly SWAGs (viz. Sophisticated Wild-Ass Guesses), or "ex ano".

Mortlach 12 OB: 54% improvement in both nose and palate, taking the whisky, FOR ME, from "BAD", to "tolerable/just OK".

Tomatin 15 Tempranillo: 37% improvement, taking the whisky from "OK, with a major flaw" to an improved version of "OK, with a major flaw".

Glen Moray Port Cask Finish: this is the major surprise, giving the whisky a 96% improvement and taking it from "BAD" to "Pretty Good". Amazingly I now enjoy drinking this one.

An interesting experiment, to be sure. Kids, don't do this at home unless you are completely certain that you would be willing to drink whisky which is completely BLACK.

5 months ago 5Who liked this?

@BlueNote
BlueNote replied

@OdysseusUnbound It’s a nice, friendly distillery to visit, too. They are generous with the tastings and they have some fill your own bottle casks that are quite superb.

5 months ago 2Who liked this?

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@Victor Intersting experiment. Did you try a coffee filter to filter out the charcoal?

5 months ago 1Who liked this?

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@paddockjudgeD@NamBeist@Nolinske@Cardinal + 4 others

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