Whisky Connosr
Menu
Buy Whisky Online

Discussions

Running Out...

4 32

@Nozinan
Nozinan started a discussion

A comment in a recent review got me thinking about the issue of running out of a certain expression.

Be it Macallan CS, Wiser's Dissertation, Last Barrels, Union 52, either long running now discontinued or one-offs. Some of us stockpile in order to not "run out".

But what does that mean? Are we talking lifetime supply? And what does that mean?

It seems to me you need a minimum number of bottles (either in the bunker or available for purchase) to be sure you will never run out of a given expression. But if you get that many of each expression you don't want to run out of, do you end up with just enough until you die, or several lifetimes worth.

I think it's worth exploring...

7 years ago

Jump to last page

Replies: page 1/2

@Nelom
Nelom replied

I've been having thoughts along these lines myself lately. Just the other day I bought another bottle of Legacy to add to my already decent stash of that whisky, but even as I was submitting the order I wondered about the wisdom of doing it.

As time passes my tastes continue to change. This applies to everything from music and books to clothing, to food and drink. Many things that I once deemed my favourites have with time become kind of boring, maybe due to having too much of it over a short period of time, maybe because of broadened horizons as I try different things, or maybe it has to do with physical changes as I age. I don't know the reason, but I do know my tastes are continually changing.

Yet I still find myself stocking up on expressions for fear that I will "run out" of them at some point, even though I know chances are pretty good that I in the future may not appreciate them nearly as much as I currently do.

I have no idea why I do this. It seems a bit compulsive, and probably something I should stop doing. So what if I do run out of a favourite expression? I have many favourite expressions, never being able to have Legacy again at some point in the future really isn't the end of the world.

It's an interesting topic, at least in parts related to psychology and personality profiles. I'll be curious to read other peoples' thoughts on it.

7 years ago 4Who liked this?

@Victor
Victor replied

I suppose that I stock my favourites with an eye that I will have those bottlings to drink for at least 5 to 10 years. What has happened in practice is that I have such broad taste, so many favourites, and so many open bottles that the stored favourites are likely to last much longer than 10 years. Certain bottlings I could go through quickly if I allowed myself to do so, e.g. the very drinkable Glenmorangie Sonnalta PX or almost any Van Winkle release. I don't allow myself to wipe out my stash of those quickly. How? By also stocking substitutes in the same genre, such as Macallan 12 Sherry Oak, or, in the case of Van Winkle, other wheated bourbons. I expect my 1 1/3 bottles of Laphroaig 18 yo to hold out a long time with 5 bottles of 10 Cask Strength and 4 bottles of Cairdeas also on hand.

7 years ago 2Who liked this?

@Robert99
Robert99 replied

Nature hates the void, so is the market. I don't stock on any whisky. I may buy a second bottle if I like one a lot, and I would like to taste some old stuff to taste something from the good ol'days, but at the end, I am confident I will find something as good, eventually.

My line of thought is that if I stacked bottles and bottles of the same whisky, having a limited budget, I will have to pass some great new whisky ( at least, new to me). The other reason for not stocking is more personal. There is a few whiskies that I would stock if They were available, but I can denied that half the pleasure I take in my hobby is coming from the search and discovry process. Therefore, stocking would deprive myself of this unique pleasure and... What would I write under the tread "Which bottle did you just buy..." "My usual. Remember, I am stocking for a lifetime." No. That's not for me.

7 years ago 6Who liked this?

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@Robert99 Wise words. I wish I lived by them. When new expressions are constantly coming out, and the old ones are so good, what is a poor weak willed Connosr to do?

7 years ago 3Who liked this?

@Mancub
Mancub replied

I must agree more with @Robert99. I often try to grab 2 of something when I can, and sometimes there is an urge to have more, but I tend not to. There are always new releases, new exclusives and new limited bottlings, there is really no end! With about 6 new releases coming out this October alone that I'm looking forward to, plus a bottle or two out there already that I have on my 'to buy list', I simply can't afford to stock-up.

7 years ago 1Who liked this?

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@Mancub Yes, always something new, a few standbys to replace, and the list goes on. I often envy the people who buy and open, and don't stash away, and just go for the next one. You probably spend less, and try more.

7 years ago 1Who liked this?

@OdysseusUnbound

My fear is that expressions will routinely be retired and replaced with inferior drams. Knob Creek has dropped their 9 Year Age Statement in favour of a simple “small batch” label. I have a recurring nightmare wherein Laphroaig retires their 10 Year Old and replaces it with an NAS that’s “more creative”.

7 years ago 2Who liked this?

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@OdysseusUnbound I think KC single Barrel remains 9 YO. In any event I have one I could part with if a shortage arose...

7 years ago 1Who liked this?

@Frost
Frost replied

I really like @Robert99’s philosophy on this subject. I do like @Victor’s to bunker down on those classic bottlings. Yet, I find myself on the side of things as @Robert99 does. That is, do I buy multiple bottlings of item X or do I just buy 1 each of items X,Y & Z. I always find myself with multiple different bottles. I get a kick in trying different expressions.

If I was to consider stockpiling the pending factor is – can you sample it in advance if you haven’t tried it (think a one off release). The whisky market in Sydney is a rather odd situation, you can seldom find a shop willing to give you tastings of samples, and if so a broad sampling pool. The culture in this country is that you are somewhat of a freeloader or scab for taking samples and you should just lay some money down. It’s not a very customer orientated market here. Friendly and informative sales staff are the exception, instead of the rule.

I have in the past finished a bottle of something that isn't common and restocked it (i.e. BenRiach Dark Rum 15 yo & Sullivan’s Cove French Oak). I know once this bottle goes, that’s it (be it due to availability for the BenRiach or sky-rocketing price tag for the Sullivan’ Cove). Which leads me onto a way to embrace @Robert99’s approach and include @Victor’s longevity through a wide range: and that is to stock a large collection with a lot of variety over different styles of whisk(e)y. I find with variety I am more satisfied and drink less. For me, more choices to choose from makes the whole collection last longer on the shelf. I can sit on 3 x 10-15ml pours of three different whisky and enjoy them more and for a longer time than pouring from one bottle in a sitting. The only issue here is if there are bottles that significantly change for the worse once oxidised (Glenmorangie Signet comes to mind from what I read on here).

And how to obtain a life time supply of your favourite expression? Self-control LOL

7 years ago 3Who liked this?

@dougwatts
dougwatts replied

Like Robert and most on here, I am generally a buy and a drink it 'fresh' merchant rather than a stockpiler - one or two special bottles aside at least. I have finished a bottle or a bottle and a half on average each month for the last few years - with that amount to play with I'm too curious to try different things than to keep going back to the same old ones. In addition, I think my palate is neither good nor refined enough to really double down on such precise flavour notes that I crave the exact same releases time and time again.

7 years ago 0

@Robert99
Robert99 replied

@Frost In Quebec, the French province of Canada, we have state's stores. Among the sales staff, we have expert advisers, the problem is that they are mainly wine experts. They are friendly but, even if I am no expert and I never had an old Scotch (25 years or more), I would probably do a better job than them.

I used to be a wine fanatic, but my taste bring me toward very expensive wine. I did have some expensive wine, thanks to my father-in-law who was a collector, but I don't have the money to buy those myself. So, my interest for whisky start with an economic decision. That's hard to believe but that's a fact. Anyway, I am just saying that I am kind of an oddity among French Canadian for loving whisky when everyone else love wine. That explained why it is difficult to have a good whisky adviser in my province.

In this regard, I have a fun story. This summer I went to a specialized store looking for a glass similar to the SMWS Copita glass (which I didn't find) and I was talking with the sales man (I even think he was the owner) about whisky. He declares himself a whisky Fan then when I started to talk about the effect of air on whisky, he proclaimed that air cannot have any effect on whisky because of the high ABV; when I told him that I perceived some effects myself he hinted me that it was probably because of some defect, contamination or some personal perception.

My conclusion is that it is quite common to be ill-advised as for the lack of courtesy, it is not exclusive to the world of whisky.

Finally, as for the issue of having many opened bottles and being afraid some will turn bad, you can choose to gas them. I myself like the effect of air but I learn to recognize some of the whiskies that will not benefit from air exposure and I don't hesitate to gas those.

7 years ago 3Who liked this?

@OdysseusUnbound

@Robert99 Air definitely has an effect on whisky. My Benromach 10 was much peatier after a few months of air exposure than when I first opened it. Was it better? I don't know if it was better or worse; it was different. It was interesting to note the evolution of this whisky. I'd love to get another Ben Ten if it ever comes back to the KGBO. Terrific stuff.

I messaged Daniel of The Whisk(e)y Vault (YouTube channel) about this very subject. He and Rex often open a whisky on camera and drink it almost right away. I asked about letting the whisky breathe for awhile and he replied that it doesn't really change all that much. I have to respectfully disagree. Springbank 10, when first opened, is an excellent case study for this phenomenon. When I first sipped it, right after opening, the peppery almost jalapeno-esque ginger was biting and powerful. After about 30-45 minutes, the flavours became a bit more distinct and defined. Man, I miss that bottle.

7 years ago 1Who liked this?

@Victor
Victor replied

@OdysseusUnbound, the conversation about the effects of air exposure on whisky has been going on on Connosr for at least about six years now, pushed primarily by me.

For the most elegant and extensive treatment of just how and how much individual whiskies evolve over time with air exposure read some of the reviews of @systemdown. He has done some reviews that were really like 4 or 5 or 6 separate reviews wrapped into one review, in which he re-evaluated the same bottle at intervals, described differences and rescored them. His reviews are thought-provoking, prodigious in scope, and put a perspective on just how limited in scope is the typical review. The effect of reading @systemdown's reviews can be quite humbling to other reviewers.

7 years ago 1Who liked this?

@Robert99
Robert99 replied

@dougwatts Unfortunately, I am not drinking everything I am buying. I am not stocking one expression in particular but I am not able to keep the pace with what I want to taste. So I am stockpiling new whiskies to try. I have around a hundred bottles and there is only four expressions for which I have two bottles and that is because the opened bottles are almost empty. Sorry if I mislead you.

7 years ago 0

@Robert99
Robert99 replied

@OdysseusUnbound I am convinced that air has some big effect, my point was that we all encounter some "Expert" that are simply foul who doesn't know a thing about whisky.

7 years ago 2Who liked this?

@MadSingleMalt

The "problem" is that whisky is both long-lasting and consumable.

It's possible to keep a bottle for your entire lifetime, or even to pass it down to your children. Like a piece of fine art, or heirloom furniture.

But it's also possible to drink it up and make it disappear, maybe even in a single night if you have a gathering. Like a pizza.

So we feel the psychological "pull" to hold onto this treasure that really is possible to keep virtually forever. But we also know that it's meant to be consumed, and we feel the loss when that's happened. Thus, we stockpile in an attempt to have it both ways. We want to have our whisky and drink it too.

7 years ago 3Who liked this?

@MadSingleMalt

I gotta admit that, even though I have a stash—and I "enjoy" it on some level, sometimes pulling out the unopened bottles just to consider them—I think most of us would be happier on a deep psychological level (though maybe not on the level of passing taste experience) if we just flew by the seat of our peaty pants, drinking what we buy and then grabbing something new on a whim. Maybe toss in one or two special bottles that you're holding for an occasion. That's it.

In fact, I've been thinking about this for a while and I intend to drink down my stash and become more "present" in my whisky consumption. It'll take a couple years, and the stash will surely feel a few "bumps" when I find deals that are too good to pass up, but I want to reach the point of living more in the moment with this stuff. And in the meantime, it costs nothing to drink what I already have.

7 years ago 1Who liked this?

@Victor
Victor replied

@MadSingleMalt, for me, the moment is quite important, too, but I interpret the moment as tasting everything that I can that's out there, not buying bottles of it all. I don't need a bottle of everything. I want bottles of the ones that give me the most pleasure. Those I do want going into the future, if I can have them. At this point I continue to taste everything I can, but I don't encounter many which compete for desirability to add to the bottle collection. I have so much variety that I could be very content to drink from my current bottles, probably for 30 years. My instincts 5-8 years ago told me that the bottles which I really liked would become scarce, and/or expensive. My instincts were right about that. That is why I have the big stash that I do. If I had honestly sensed that the whisky market would have stayed as it was with respect to price, availability, and quality I would not have squirreled away so many pet bottles. If that is what I had sensed I would probably now be like many Connosrs with 20 bottles total in my collection. And I would now be reading about lots of great whisky that people can't get their hands on today...ones which I now have in my cabinet. I didn't want the whisky popularity craze, but I subliminally sensed it coming.

7 years ago 0

@BlueNote
BlueNote replied

@OdysseusUnbound Re: your experience with the Springbank 10: I found exactly the same thing with the Kilkerran 12. I was a bit taken aback and a bit put off on first opening, but, man, it really settled down nicely after a quite short period of airing out.

7 years ago 1Who liked this?

@OdysseusUnbound

@BlueNote I should clarify that I was not put off by the initial bite of Springbank 10, I enjoyed its feistiness. But with air exposure, it became a bit friendlier, and much clearer and more defined, if that makes sense.

7 years ago 0

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@MadSingleMalt I think you'll find if you drink down your stash and then buy in the moment, you'll have accumulated a lot of cash for those buying times...

7 years ago 0

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@Victor Your open bottles alone would last me 30 years.

7 years ago 0

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@Robert99 Anyone who tells you your perceptions are wrong is likely an idiot. It's like when I tell my wife I want something (any issue, not necessarily alcohol related) and she says no, and I tell her she's wrong...she can't tell me I don't want it. She can (and does) only tell me I can't HAVE it.

So if I smell infected diabetic foot ulcer in Lambertus, and cat urine (under no circumstances in a good way), no one can tell me I don't.

If you notice a difference with air (and many of us do), anyone who says you don't is just out to lunch...

7 years ago 1Who liked this?

@paddockjudge
paddockjudge replied

I don't find myself running out to the store.

By having a well stocked cabinet, with numerous open bottles, I can partake of my favourites whenever the urge arises and accordingly with the mood. The FORO does not cross my mind because I have sufficient inventory to carry me for years without making another purchase; however, I continue to accumulate more stock because I know what I like and I want more of it. This has taken careful planning and when I find a whisky to be pleasing and reasonably priced, I will purchase that particular offering...sometimes repeatedly.

Sharing and trading whisky, as well as seeking out knowledgeable whisky folk, has enabled me too increase my Whisky IQ and my Whisky Quotient.

7 years ago 3Who liked this?

@BlueNote
BlueNote replied

@paddockjudge I like that approach. I'm going to try and emulate that kind of thinking. The operative word there being "try."

7 years ago 0

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

I've made a conscious effort for depth (good stocks of things I like) and with my evolution u now want breadth. One way to achieve both is to exchange and return, to make e collection more to my liking. But you never know what you'll like in 5 years. Who would have thought that I would want Mac 12 in my collection?

7 years ago 1Who liked this?

@MadSingleMalt

I organized my stash last night and counted up any bottles of which I have "never run out" supply levels. Actually, the only single expression of which I have a big stash is Laphroaig 10 CS. Ten bottles. A decade's worth of peaty power.

That feels a little excessive, really. I'm looking forward to my whisky club absorbing at least one. And then I'm gonna just drink the rest with abandon.

The other stuff I have "supplies" of are Ardbeg Ten (just a couple) and the Kilkerran line (which are similar, but for the most part aren't duplicates). That all feels about right, but I am looking forward to consuming these rather than continuing to hoard them.

7 years ago 0

@Nozinan
Nozinan replied

@MadSingleMalt I think that's a good plan. My stores are heavy in different bottles than yours. I think this calls for a summit.

7 years ago 0

JayRain replied

Compulsion is definitely the right term and compulsive individuals are also very partial to collecting. Not referring to collecting just for the sake of ownership but to also achieve in-depth knowledge on typed topics as well.

Having had various forms of collectivitis over my time (music, movies, books, spirits), it really dawned on me last year that spirit longevity was surpassing my life span and storage space (especially since I had made an independently subsequent decision to consume less for a healthier lifestyle). I also began to question the rationale for my chronic purchases.

A decision was made to use my logical structure (which drives the compulsion) to reduce purchase volume. I set a target of 1 bottle per spirit category (vodka, rum, tequila, cognac, gin, american rye, canadian rye, bourbon, scotch, japanese whiskey, absinthe, grappa), The approach would be to have a well-regarded bottle of each type and replenish w something new when finished.

The results have been pretty much what was intended - other than one bottle of Dissertation (thanks to many for that excellent recommendation), nothing has been purchased from the LCBO. Through two trips this year (Italy/England & Houston), 9 bottles were purchased and although, I don't keep stats of what has been finished in a given year, I can see that the stockpile has decreased quite a bit.

I have too many bottles of whiskey (47 closed, 5 open) to fulfill my target in the next five years but have achieved in all other categories (spare Vodka - it is the least consumed spirit in the household). Through time, the goal will be achieved and will have a 4x3 on the hutch (will still partake and enjoy in quality spirits but not obsessed in purchasing that next expression).

My approach is not for all and I truly do admire those that still have the penchant; however I type this as a partial success story to what has been a long-standing discussion point/desirable outcome on this site.

Whichever plan you land on, may happiness always be w you...jr

PS - I would like to share my collection with and learn firsthand from fellow Connosr's. I do realize that I have some badwill to make up for but intend to do so and look forward to quality time together

7 years ago 1Who liked this?

JayRain replied

Also very much agree w the point that there will always be a desirable bottle to purchase in the future so do not have to own everything in the present

7 years ago 1Who liked this?

Liked by:

J@MadSingleMalt@Frost@Nelom